DeltaBluez Tess Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 So a friend of mine got a pupt from this place. http://pecanplacepoodlesandpoos.com/ourhomepage.html The 'breeder' talked a good talk and sold her a 7 week old pup. She claims it will never shed and is a good family dog. So when I got home, I had to look up the 'breeder' and see what she spent $500 on.... all I can say is wow......the 'breeder' had her convinced that F1 dogs are the ONLY one to get as all the purebreeds are genetic nightmares etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Her older dogs that she sells are "off-and-on" house dogs but "a tad under socialized?" And she's got 8 litters due between September 15 and "the middle of" October? Yikes, even if it's just 5 pups a litter, that would be 40 pups on the ground at once! Hm. ~ Gloria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted August 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 40 pups at $500 per pup.....wow, I should quit my day job! This is all in ONE MONTH's TIME Just kidding.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderlineCrazy(: Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Wow, this is awesome. Don't you just want to buy two of them and make more puppies!? Or, OR we could buy micro mini golden labraschnoodles. Yeah, I just made a new breed. This is getting ridiculous. Everywhere you look you see these "designer" dogs, and it just drives me crazy! I was at a fundraiser event and an announcer said that she was "Here with Jack, the chiweenie! And at home he has a mate, and they have seven beautiful puppies for sale!" I just wanted to hit my head against a wall when I heard that. ...On their website: On this page I place the litters as soon as my girls are bred and before I know if they actually 'took' or not. I generally can't be sure the girls are actually pregnant until 3 weeks before they are due, so, just because a litter is on this page that doesn't mean we will actually get puppies, especially since these guys are mostly first timers and not proven. If your favorite is still here about 3 weeks before they are due then you can be pretty sure they are actually pregnant, so, keep watching. She's breeding unproven, first-time dogs. And I'm assuming without a SINGLE vet check, since she doesn't know until about 3 weeks before they're due. Good god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Wow, this is awesome. Don't you just want to buy two of them and make more puppies!? Or, OR we could buy micro mini golden labraschnoodles. Yeah, I just made a new breed. This is getting ridiculous. Everywhere you look you see these "designer" dogs, and it just drives me crazy! I was at a fundraiser event and an announcer said that she was "Here with Jack, the chiweenie! And at home he has a mate, and they have seven beautiful puppies for sale!" I just wanted to hit my head against a wall when I heard that. ...On their website: On this page I place the litters as soon as my girls are bred and before I know if they actually 'took' or not. I generally can't be sure the girls are actually pregnant until 3 weeks before they are due, so, just because a litter is on this page that doesn't mean we will actually get puppies, especially since these guys are mostly first timers and not proven. If your favorite is still here about 3 weeks before they are due then you can be pretty sure they are actually pregnant, so, keep watching. She's breeding unproven, first-time dogs. And I'm assuming without a SINGLE vet check, since she doesn't know until about 3 weeks before they're due. Good god. And she's got 8 litters due between September 15 and "the middle of" October? Yikes, even if it's just 5 pups a litter, that would be 40 pups on the ground at once! So...what line do you have to cross to be considered a puppy mill? all I can say is wow......the 'breeder' had her convinced that F1 dogs are the ONLY one to get as all the purebreeds are genetic nightmares etc.... So, the calculus is: Genetic nightmare + Genetic nightmare = Superpup? What little genetics I had in college says...um...no. Not unless you throw in many generations, large baskets of time and natural selection (or at least informed directed selection). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 It's unlikely for the offspring from the cross pure bred dogs of different breeds (gene pools) to be affected by the genetic defects of either parent (unless both breeds have the same genetic defects). However, the offspring could be the carrier of the genetic defects from both gene pools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 So a friend of mine got a pupt from this place. http://pecanplacepoodlesandpoos.com/ourhomepage.html Here are my favorite quotes from the website: "Shame on these money grubbing opportunists" DUH. I would say that of all the designer dog breeders...including her. "I'm not a long-time Labradoodle breeder who decided to breed AD's also because of their reputation and prices." Please note the word "PRICES"...but she's not in it for the money! LOL "I do this from a true love of the herding dogs!" Really...do they herd? Does she work them? What amazes me is that people flock to these breeders and spend all that money on a mixed breed!!! Nothing against the mixes, but you sure don't need to pay $600-$1000 on a mix. A fool and his money.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 It's unlikely for the offspring from the cross pure bred dogs of different breeds (gene pools) to be affected by the genetic defects of either parent (unless both breeds have the same genetic defects). However, the offspring could be the carrier of the genetic defects from both gene pools. I stand corrected...too many years looking at things at the scale of the landscape. ..but it's not just frank genetic defects that cause some pure bred dogs to be less useful/desirable than their ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 (unless both breeds have the same genetic defects). They seem to overlap. Maja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 The absolute worst cases of hip dysplasia I have ever seen were labradoodles and goldendoodles. They have allergies just as often as goldens and lads and their symptoms are just as bad. They get the same kinds of cancer. I could go on. My experience has been that they are not any healthier than their parent breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I have no problem with a purpose-bred crossbreed. However, I can't see any value in crossing these two breeds except to line someone's pocket. And when I saw the subject line all I could think was "zomg! the hair!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 The absolute worst cases of hip dysplasia I have ever seen were labradoodles and goldendoodles. They have allergies just as often as goldens and lads and their symptoms are just as bad. They get the same kinds of cancer. I could go on. My experience has been that they are not any healthier than their parent breeds. We're these dogs the offspring of the parent breeds (true hybrids) or offspring of the crosses? It's my understanding that some of the designer breeds are going through a trait "fixing" process to make them true breeds (i.e. "______"doodles bred to "______"doodles producing "______"doodles with the same traits as the parents). If the latter is true then hybrid vigor would not apply. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary&Sully Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 40 pups at $500 per pup.....wow, I should quit my day job! This is all in ONE MONTH's TIME Just kidding.... Ohh thats worst case scenario!! The 'interestingly' colored pups go for $700-1200! Think of that cash!! Damn, who needs a college degree anymore? I also am slightly disgusted by this quote: "Some are also being retired after I get what I need from them. " After she gets what she needs from them?? So sad. Maybe she just used bad word choice, but seriously. It kind of turned my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Ohh thats worst case scenario!! The 'interestingly' colored pups go for $700-1200! Think of that cash!! Damn, who needs a college degree anymore? I also am slightly disgusted by this quote: "Some are also being retired after I get what I need from them. " After she gets what she needs from them?? So sad. Maybe she just used bad word choice, but seriously. It kind of turned my stomach. Once again, what is the point at which the term "Puppy Mill" is used?...or is this breeder just a "Doggie Squeezer"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeri Jessee Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I don't know anything about this kind of thing (genetics, designer breeds, etc) but I find it really annoying. And I don't want any part of a dog called a " (fill in the blank) doodle". Its not the dogs' fault but good heavens what is this woman doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 OI also am slightly disgusted by this quote: "Some are also being retired after I get what I need from them. " After she gets what she needs from them?? So sad. Maybe she just used bad word choice, but seriously. It kind of turned my stomach. Yeah, that one got me, too, I just didn't want to end up quoting the entire website. As I very well could have. How do you "love" a dog when you just breed it twice, then sell it off, and never mind having so many dogs it's unlikely they all have names. And her poor husband tends them all? Not sure what that makes him ... Nice to know Diane and I aren't the only ones thinking the "P__M___" words. By the way, some of her wording on the site suggests to me that she served some younger years working for other, show-bred puppy mills. Rang that way to me, anyhow. Poor dogs. Poor, poor innocent dogs. ~ Gloria P.S. I didn't catch that part about no apparent vet checks. Yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'd certainly say she's a mill. But when it's a BYB type mill, I suppose it's one of those I know it when I see it things.... I had the discussion of why people do this with my sister one day, and it's easy to see why. If you breed a lot, own all the breeding dogs, and do just the absolute minimum care (vet wise) you can make a pretty penny. Too bad for the breeding dogs and all the pups going out into the world to perhaps produce even more pups, but if it weren't a lucrative business, folks wouldn't do it. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Moon Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 but if it weren't a lucrative business, folks wouldn't do it. Heh...sounds like another thread down in "Politics". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderlineCrazy(: Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 Are puppy mills like that illegal? I know that the ones where the dogs are kept in cages their whole lives, etc, are...But what about something like she does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Are puppy mills like that illegal? I know that the ones where the dogs are kept in cages their whole lives, etc, are...But what about something like she does? Actually the mills with cages are not illegal as far as I know. If they were, then people wouldn't constantly be trying to pass legislation to further regulate them. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderlineCrazy(: Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Actually the mills with cages are not illegal as far as I know. If they were, then people wouldn't constantly be trying to pass legislation to further regulate them. J. You've gotta be kidding me. I mean, they don't give these dogs vet care, they're stuffed into tiny cages all their lives...While the operation itself of breeding mass ammounts of puppy might not be illegal, their living conditions still have to be against the law in so many ways, am I right? That's cruelty/neglect on so many levels. Adri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Mark, it doesn't seem to make a difference if they are f1, f2 or "purebred" doodle. Most I see are f1 dogs coming from breeders trying to make a buck. Its actually rare to see doodles from the imported original lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You've gotta be kidding me. I mean, they don't give these dogs vet care, they're stuffed into tiny cages all their lives...While the operation itself of breeding mass ammounts of puppy might not be illegal, their living conditions still have to be against the law in so many ways, am I right? That's cruelty/neglect on so many levels. Adri Nope. Puppy Mills are USDA regulated, which means they are a-ok with the government. Many operate illegally, but a lot of them are completely "legit." http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html RDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderlineCrazy(: Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Nope. Puppy Mills are USDA regulated, which means they are a-ok with the government. Many operate illegally, but a lot of them are completely "legit." http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/USDA.html RDM That's awful. Adri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 And the AKC lobbies against even the most sensible legislation regarding puppy mills and encourages puppy mills to register with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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