Smooth vs. Rough coat?

[dsmbc]

I have always loved rough coats and didn't think I liked smooths until I got one. Now I have two smooths and one rough.

 

Interestingly enough just today I was asked what kind of mix my very classically marked prick eared rough coat was.

 

I do occasionally get asked what breed my smoothies are, but folks are always interested to find out how diverse border collies are. It was my very first BC - a very large, 60lb, mostly black rough coat - that folks asked about the most. he was a handsome dog, but he was big.

 

I agree with others, the smoothies are very easy to take care of. All things being equal with how they work, I would pick smooth again.

[Mark Billadeau]

When someone says your dog does not look like a Border Collie you could respond you can't tell what a Border Collie looks like unless it is working livestock.

[Pam Wolf]

My typical reply to people asking 'what sort of mix" is my smooth coats is that he/she is not a mix but a pure working Border Collie. Those dogs you see in dog shows called Border Collies are descended from the working dog But they have been bred exclusively for a particular look at the cost of their ability to work livestock and in the opinion of working people are NOT Border Collies but an illusion of a Border Collie.

 

Rude, it may be but I like it

[juliepoudrier]

I usually just say "They're working border collies. They come in all shapes and sizes and coat types because they're bred for the work and not a particular look."

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

I agree with you completely.

I have not been through the archives, and was unaware there were a lot of breeders with bad intentions, so I apologize again for taking it personally.

I don't think it's actually breeders with bad intentions so much as breeders who just have no clue. They don't understand what made these dogs so special (years of selective breeding for work) and they breed for the wrong things. But they aren't doing so maliciously for the most part; they just don't know any better. And then they start breeding threads here and discover that we're pretty militant about why and how these dogs should be bred they get offended and call everyone here rude and out of touch and so on. Because of course they want to breed for color or for sports or low-drive couch potato pets and don't want to hear that doing such breeding is an abomination to people who love these dogs and use these dogs for their original purpose.

 

And that's why I made my comment about not bothering with a puppy buyer who would argue over whether a smooth coated dog can also be purebred. If they are that clueless about working border collies (or border collies in general) then they're not someone I would be wasting a lot of energy on. As a breeder of working dogs, though, I'd expect you to understand that they come in all shapes, sizes, coat lengths, ear sets, etc., and not let those who would argue otherwise to bother you in the least.

 

J.

[Root Beer]

I tell people that Dean is a "rare type" of Border Collie. I get a double whammy with him being smooth coated and tri-merle. If pointing out that he has a tail (yes, I know some Aussie's have tails) and that Aussies don't come in smooth coats doesn't convince a person, usually the "rare type" of Border Collie comment does the trick.

 

I guess Dean Dog being Dean Dog, he is a "rare type". In personality, anyway!!

 

It's funny because everyone thinks Tessa (in the photo below) is a Border Collie. When they see me out with the two of them, I get asked what kind of dog, or what kind of "mix", Dean is! Tessa is viewed as a Border Collie.

 

It's ironic.

 

Bandit . . . who knows? Everyone knew he was a Border Collie puppy. I guess I will have to see what his coat ends up looking like in the end. I see classic Border Collie when I look at him, but who knows what others will see?

[Tommy Coyote]

I love smooth coats. They are so easy to care for. My red and white smooth coat was fine in cold weather. She would swim out at Smithville Lake in the dead of winter if I let her. I tried to keep her out of the water in winter because I don't think swimming in icy water is a good thing.

 

I did have neighbors that thought she was a pitbull.

 

My other dogs have all been roughs and mostly they have had self cleaning coats. And my dogs are not out in high grass or anything where their coats can get full of burrs or weeds.

 

Joey is a very short rough coats, I guess. His coat is pretty short and pretty stiff but I think it's too long to really be called a smooth.

[GentleLake]

When someone says your dog does not look like a Border Collie you could respond you can't tell what a Border Collie looks like unless it is working livestock.

 

 

Where's the like button!

[StephaaRas]

Um... I'm confused. Really and truly. If you would care to read my post (#30) again, I'd appreciate your explaining to me how you thought I was being rude to you? Or how you felt I was acting like a know-it-all?

 

I thought I was simply explaining why I wouldn't worry about individuals who didn't want to be educated about the fact that yes, smooth-coated Border collies exist.

I was not referring to you, you are one of the people who actually gave a genuine answer.

Sorry for the mix up.

[StephaaRas]

And for the person who said this thread was lacking in pictures...

This is the smooth coat I am referring to. She is still a long while off of being able to be bred, but if all checks out she will be the one.

 

 

 

 

I think she looks quite like a border collie, regardless of coat length.

[Liz P]

I've owned plenty of smooth coats. They aren't necessarily the shivering dog in a cold day. In fact, I just bought a heated bed for my super fluffy rough coat (he is getting older). The smooth coats have been fine. At one point I lived in central NY and would walk my dogs in -20F weather. Never saw them shivering. Let them acclimate to the weather and even smooth coats will develop a thick undercoat.

 

I prefer smoothies for the ease of coat care in a working dog. Yes, they do pick up burrs, but they are easy to wipe off. With the rough coats you have to pick them out and brush out the knots.

 

My oldest smooth coat has been called many things, including a rat terrier. My youngest is a great dane mix.

 

To the OP: Unfortunately most litters of Border Collies in this country are not well thought out. By that I mean the parents haven't been worked to a high standard or don't have health testing or the breeder doesn't have enough knowledge about the lines. (Knowing certain dogs in a pedigree were big name trial winners isn't enough. How did they work? What was their health like? Did they breed true? What were their close relatives like?) For this reason, people who care about the future of the breed will question others who show up on a forum and ask a question that makes you look extremely inexperienced. Without meaning to sound rude, I would only expect a complete novice who has zero business breeding to ask "what's the deal with smooth coats?"

[StephaaRas]

I was not asking the deal with smooth coats, I was simply asking what peoples opinions of them were, or if anyone had questioned people on the breed of their smooth coat dogs.

I don't take it as a rude comment, it's easy to think that that is what I meant by the OP.

[D'Elle]

I have had people tell me that my dogs are not "real" or are not purebred. I respond with some version of the things that have been mentioned here by other people, but if the person commenting on my dog is not interested in learning I let it drop. Life is much too short to spend a minute arguing with a closed mind, or with an ignorant person who is not willing to learn. If the person is interested, I will talk to them all day about border collies.

 

And my dogs are not even smooth coats, but rather what one might call semi-rough (Jester) or semi-smooth (Kit). Personally, I like the semi-rough look the best, just for pretty, and for soft fur to pet. But my semi-smooth female is easier to care for than my semi-rough male, and sheds a lot less. I would probably choose that, or a smoothie, if I had that option in the future, but the fact is that I will choose the dog or puppy that is right for me on the inside, and whatever coat or color the dog is won't matter.

 

To the OP: I am glad you did not leave the forum. No one here meant to be rude to you. These folks are simply highly invested in the working border collie, and are passionate about preserving that. I have found that at times I have learned something the hard way here, but it has always, without exception, been well worth my while to stick around and learn. The information, advice, and support you can get here is phenomenal.

Welcome. I hope you stick around, because you can get a lot out of the experience.

[StephaaRas]

Thank you, I believe I will stay. A lot of people here are nice, and it was a bit quick of me to judge everybody on these boards the same.

I've also read a lot of other threads and people have said some very interesting things, and things that anybody can learn from. It'd be nice to stick around this community, though from now on I may be more of an observer than a poster.

 

For everybody else, I am sorry for asking what seemed to be an uneducated question. I assure you I do know that border collies have different coat lengths, and this was not me questioning them or anything of the sort. I also know that border collies looks have nothing to do with their ability to work, it was not a question of which coat length can work better, it was a question of simply which one you prefer the care/looks of.

[NCStarkey]

Hi again StephaaRas,

Thanks for the photo of your youngster...she's very cute and definitely looks like a purebred Border Collie (no matter what those who don't know Border Collies say).

Regards,

nancy

[gcv-border]

Ohhh! Your little girl is lovely. Hmmm, I think you should probably send that mutt (obviously a mutt since she doesn't have the fluffy coat) here to me.

 

And just in case I am misunderstood, the above comment about being a 'mutt' is totally tongue in cheek. She is gorgeous! Look at my smoothcoat boy in my avatar. In the pic, he is 5 months old. He is now 9 months.

[StephaaRas]

I'm not seeing an avatar displayed for you, I'm not sure if it's only on my end or what.

But thank you, I'll send her to you right away.

[Liz P]

PS, where did you get her? She reminds me of my smoothies. Wondering if she is related.

[gcv-border]

testing

[gcv-border]

I'm not seeing an avatar displayed for you, I'm not sure if it's only on my end or what.

But thank you, I'll send her to you right away.

I think my Kiefer is now displaying in my avatar. I thought I had it displaying before. Maybe some computer glitch?

 

And thank you, I appreciate the holiday present.

[StephaaRas]

I see it now, he is absolutely adorable!

 

And Liz, I got her in Pennsylvania.

[JenS]

I'm in California, and it is pretty common for folks to think my smooth dogs are McNabs. I also have a smooth white factor dog with prick ears who has on occasion been mistaken for a Caanan Dog.

 

Rough coated dogs, as much as I like them, are simply not an option out here in the land of foxtails, awns and burrs. Even the LGDs need to be smooth. All the stockdogs on the ranches around here are smooth, though many of those dogs are crossbred. Crossing in Kelpie is pretty common.

 

I get as many folk question the breed due to being tricolor as I do due to being smooth. Quick answer is "Border Collies are not ( or should not ) bred to look any certain way. They are bred as stock dogs" if folks care to chat more about that, it is a good starting point. If folks don't care to chat, well I've quickly summed things up and we go on our way.

[Bogwoppit]

And for the person who said this thread was lacking in pictures...

This is the smooth coat I am referring to. She is still a long while off of being able to be bred, but if all checks out she will be the one.

 

 

 

 

I think she looks quite like a border collie, regardless of coat length.

10/10 would throw a frisbee for.

 

I'm not used to seeing many completely smooth coats.

[bcnewe2]

I giggle to myself and proceed to let them tell me all about border collies and what they should look like and how they are working dogs. Anyone that doesn't know and would have the nerve to tell me about "my" dogs doesn't need me to inform or educate them. If they were truly interested in working dogs I could ramble on for hours.

 

I have both, very rough coats and very smooth. I used to covet what I didn't have, a smoothie. Now that I have both I still love my smoothie as I can attest to the hair issues.

 

I am not living at home for the moment, I come home about every 3 days to do laundry, check on sheep and play with my dogs. And sweep the floors.....let me tell you 3 days of not sweeping up after 2 very rough coated dogs still blowing coats will have you coveting smooth dogs too!

 

I love them all and have never gotten a dog by coat preference but if I had the perfect choice of 2 equal quality dogs, rough or smooth, I'd take the smooth any day. I hate using hair as a condiment! Not to say my smooth girl doesn't shed but one good brushing and poof it's gone!

[juliepoudrier]

You're lucky Kristen. I think my smooths are some of my worst shedders! I guess that's because smooth also comes in many forms and the ones who have more undercoat (less slick) also shed a ton.

 

J.