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So I was walking three dogs- two of whom are terriers. One of those terriers is a grumpy little old lady who can spook if a bigger dog comes up to her unexpectedly (a bit deaf, a bit arthritic). The second dog has had cancer, is elderly, multiple health issues. The other terrier is a little dog who is afraid of her own shadow. After many months of walking the small dog she's got to the point where she can walk quietly behind my legs as other dogs pass by, with maybe one bark, without having a panicked fit. No wetting herself, screaming, snarling, or redirecting onto one of the other dogs.

 

This is because of lots and lots of effort, months of painstaking and careful training, spent giving her little positive calm experiences with other dogs.

 

We've got to the point where they can walk past barking hysterical on-lead dogs no problem, and a mannerly pack off-lead are fine so long as they don't go right up to us.

 

Then tonight someone's off-lead dogs came up to us barking, one of them circled us, the other one blocked the path so we couldn't get by. Small dog starts trying to redirect again, something that literally hasn't been seen in months, and the other four are all barking their fool heads off. It's as much as I can do to stand and keep the little dog off the others. Meanwhile the other owner doesn't make any attempt to catch or control his dogs. His helpful suggestion is to let mine off-lead so they can all be fine, so it would be all right. I think that is what is really annoying me. All I could think to say was that his dogs would have chunks out of them if that happened- maybe that would get him to get his dogs away?

 

Look- I know I am a terrible dog trainer. I know I should have better-behaved dogs. I know they shouldn't take their cues on excitement from each other, they shouldn't bark back. But they do. And I also know that leash aggression is totally a thing. But is a pack of hyped-up dogs really the time to train that? You don't know me or my dogs, I don't know you or yours, I have no way of knowing how their bite inhibition is. Is this really the time or the place for that?

 

So now I have to go get a muzzle for the little dog who was genuinely doing really well. I get it, I get it, dogs will be dogs, I should have dogs who are better able to cope with the rough-and-tumble of social interaction. But... is it too much to ask that I get to walk by with the dogs without anyone charging us?

 

Edit: just to clarify it was the off-lead dogs who started the barking, it wasn't leash frustration. They looked a bit freaked out to see us there, hence presumably why they ran at us from quite a distance away.

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Dear Ms. Simba,

 

No. No muzzle for your dogs. This kind of rudeness is best met with a stick (or boot) for the offending dogs and "Get the fuck away from my dogs, fuckwit!!"

You are responsible for your dog's safety and mental state.

 

Rude Owner won't love you but will collect dogs and depart in a huff. Your goal: achieved.

 

Donald McCaig

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That had to have been frustrating, and I can empathize. I have a reactive lurcher and we were recently accosted by an off leash Lab while walking. Mine was on leash.

 

Like yours, she'd been getting better, but this dog was rushing straight at her, y'know the way Labs do. So she freaked out. I yelled at the guy to call his dog off, which he eventually did, but not before Tansy'd gone way over threshold. :angry:

 

I agree with Donald.

 

And I want one of those muzzles!!

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Carry some mace. You don't have to use it, but pointing it might get your point across. I can think of at least once where I would have used it. Our family dog was attacked by a Rottweiler and a shepherd mix (who were off leash running alongside their owner's car for "exercise") and I absolutely would have used mace if I had it. Out where I live aggressive off leash dogs can and will be shot, so I consider mace/kick/spur/etc. to be a favor to the owner. You should not have to alter your behavior because of some idiot's inability to control their dogs. Yours come first.

 

I'm pretty well versed with Donald McCaig's method as well.

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I want to get a muzzle in case she's started redirecting onto the other dogs again. It's odd, she went for the dog she gets on really really well with. They're asleep beside each other currently.

 

Kind of reassured. I was half-expecting to come back to "Well, yeah, if your dogs can't cope with it they probably shouldn't be out." Or "Yes you should have taken them off-lead."

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I'm all for muzzle training your dog for a variety of reasons

 

Look- I know I am a terrible dog trainer. I know I should have better-behaved dogs. I know they shouldn't take their cues on excitement from each other, they shouldn't bark back. But they do. And I also know that leash aggression is totally a thing. But is a pack of hyped-up dogs really the time to train that? You don't know me or my dogs, I don't know you or yours, I have no way of knowing how their bite inhibition is. Is this really the time or the place for that?

 

So now I have to go get a muzzle for the little dog who was genuinely doing really well. I get it, I get it, dogs will be dogs, I should have dogs who are better able to cope with the rough-and-tumble of social interaction. But... is it too much to ask that I get to walk by with the dogs without anyone charging us?

 

Not too much to ask at all. You're not a terrible dog trainer. Not all dogs are great with off-leash dogs running towards them. You had your pack under control, that guy didn't. You weren't wrong at all.

 

I'm all for muzzle training for a variety of reasons, but I feel like that's a separate conversation, although I don't think it's bad to work on muzzle training to prevent the dog from redirecting on the other dog.

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I love to hike with my two Borders and we usually travel 20-25 miles a week in good weather. My dogs are quiet and easy to control, they are only off-leash in quiet areas, in the early morning. When we encounter other people they are called back and put on leash.

It totally pisses me off when people have off leash dogs that they can't control and the dogs come blasting up to mine, get in my dogs face and growl at them while the owner is yelling "it's ok, he/she is friendly." GGGRRRRR!!!!!!! I will forever think of Donald's response and be tempted to use it "Get the fuck away from my dogs fuck-wit!!!" I do carry pepper spray although I've never used it. I did swat a dog on the nose with the ends of the leashes when the dog started growling at my dogs, the owner screamed. This was after I repeatedly told her to get her dog and she called it and the dog completely ignored her. I then chewed her out with the ending statement "how STUPID are you?"

Simba, you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. My friend hikes with terriers (she had nine at one point) and she has the same issue with one of them redirecting onto another of her dogs. It sounds like you were doing quite well with your crew until you met up with that idiot!!!!

I think people have watched The Dog Whisperer too much and think the solution to all dog problems is to turn them loose together and let them work it out.

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This was at night, they know animal control wouldn't be there!

 

God be with the days Aschlemm before my dogs had arthritis when I could do that kind of distance!

 

I hate the way you're some kind of bad and/or ignorant and/or coddling person if you don't want them to all 'sort it out'. Woman with small dog who is afraid, raises a few stereotypes in people's heads. But when I was young and even more ignorant I believed someone about the 'let them loose, sure ours are friendly, they'll sort it out' and ended up with one very small terrier under a pile of noisy, snarling golden retrievers.

Or "Don't worry, it's good that your (terrified) dog snarled at mine, sure he was due a lesson." Or worse "I'm going to let my rude dog over to yours in the hopes that it will correct it and 'teach it a lesson' so it can behave better."

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I think people have watched The Dog Whisperer too much and think the solution to all dog problems is to turn them loose together and let them work it out.

 

Uggggh there are few things that irk me more than someone telling me to let the dogs "work it out". My last dog was the world's most easy-going labradoodle. Other dogs would snarl or snap at him, and his response was generally a wiggly happy tail wag in a manner that looked mostly like "Oh hi that was a weird way to say hi but that's okay!"I know all dogs are capable of snapping, but I truly believe he'd never.

 

There was one dog we encountered fairly regularly, looked like some sort of Aussie mix as I remember (it's been a while), but her owner would run her off-leash. Whenever she saw us, she'd stop and growl, and become more aggressive if we tried to move. Her owner would just keep running, as I'd yell to him "you need to get your dog! this is not an off-leash park!"

 

His response was usually "the dogs are fine, they'll work it out".

 

If by "work it out", you mean your dog is going to attack mine while he looks at me pitifully wondering why I didn't protect him, sorry, not interested. Sometimes people are truly awful.

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Walking the dogs off-lead today in a quiet area, stupid me didn't notice a dog and owner coming up behind us.

 

The two terriers RAN AT the flexi-leaded small dog, like the little dog was a rat or something. They chased her in circles around her owner until the little dog screamed and fell into a pond nearby. I meanwhile roared at them in between shouted apologies and tried to catch them, eventually succeeding. Their owner was the one trying to reassure me that her dog was friendly and fine, it was no problem. Sure, it's no problem that your dog is absolutely petrified because two lunatics are bullying her.

 

I wanted to throw the pair into the pond myself. I've never been so annoyed. They had to do all of their obedience tricks along the walk as they went. The older dog got pretty stressed by just how angry I was, and quit half-way through.

 

So yeah. No more off-lead time for my dogs. Could not believe it. I know, I know, everyone says 'she's never done that before', the older dog has a penchant for being a bully but never anything as bad as this. I wanted to kick her into next week and then have someone do the same to me. It was completely unfair on the little dog we met. That's it, no more dogs for me after this lot. Clearly I am just not responsible enough.

 

Edit: At least I know I'm just as annoyed about it when I'm the one who does it? I mean, terrible day... should not own dogs.... serious retraining needed for all concerned... but hey, no hypocrisy?

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No one got hurt. It's impossible to go anywhere here where I live. So many dogs and people. A lot of people use the dog parks which are a new thing around here but I don't like them. Fortunately I have a big back yard.

 

Dogs are so unpredictable. Even well trained dogs can forget everything they ever knew. And it is just amazing how fast everything can go wrong. One minute it's just a peaceful morning walk and 2 seconds later you can have chaotic mess on your hands.

 

It can happen even if the dogs are on leash. I was walking 2 dogs on leash once one of which was very dog aggressive. A man opened his front door and his yorker ran out and ran right up on us. It was awful. I was trying to keep the dog aggressive dog from killing it. I finally just sat down and grabbed the dog I was walking by the collar and hung on until a neighbor got there to help.

 

I won't walk dogs anymore. People have to have a fenced yard or I won't take them. Except for the little dogs that I can just walk around the front yard and then go back in. I can just pick them up.

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I ran into this kind of thing yesterday. The other person was a long-time friend who has a Shetland Sheepdog mix and a belligerent Chihuahua,that she walks on a Flexi-lead. <_< I wrote her about it, as follows:

 

Dear ------,

 

Evidently you are angry because I called your dog an asshole. Sorry if it offends you, but he was being an asshole. I very clearly saw him bite each of my dogs in turn. He didn’t break the skin, no lasting harm was done to my dogs, and if I didn’t consider you a friend I would let the matter drop.

 

However the harm done to your dog, every time he puts on this type of aggressive display is incalculable. Eventually it will get him seriously injured or killed. Dogs, especially dogs that do not know each other well, do not take body size into account when they are on the receiving end of an aggressive display or a bite. They retaliate in kind. And a five lb. Chihuahua will come out badly in such an encounter with nearly all other dogs.

 

Fortunately for Chewy, my dogs were behind a fence. If they hadn’t been, things might have been quite different. As it was, Sugarfoot, (who was bitten by the Chihuahua) who is aware that I disapprove of aggressive displays from her, did a check-back with me - she looked over her shoulder - at which point Chewy ran to Maid - who was standing with her head outside the bars, wagging her tail and inviting contact – and bit her. She responded by wrinkling her snout, showing her teeth and snapping. At that point I called both my dogs, and you picked Chewy up.

 

You seem to be of the opinion that such behavior is cute. It is not. It is rude and dangerous. For your dog, and for you, should you try to intervene on his behalf if he gets attacked...

 

...I am sure you love your dogs, as I do mine. Please consider this matter seriously. It could eventually lead to Chewy suffering harm or worse. And it isn’t making any friends for you either. His life is in your hands. Think about it.

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I guess maybe I'm lucky. Last year, the sheriff's department took over animal control, so calling animal control is calling the sheriff's department, and they are on 24/7. I wouldn't hesitate to call 911 and tell them a neighbor allowed his/her dog to attack you.

 

The only down side to the new situation with animal control is that if you are late getting vaccines and registration, you get a threatening letter from the sheriff.

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My older terrier who instigated trouble with the small dog previously met many small dogs today, no trouble. Two of them were barking at her and she just looked up at me and ignored it. She did rebuff a puppy, which I could have wished to be done more politely, but no-one was harmed or even frightened, the pup continued to try and entice her to play.

 

Probably it's that the lead stops her from bullying others, could be that something about that little dog brought out a bit of predatory drift, but whatever it was she's not getting the lead taken off her again around others*. So hopefully it won't be a problem.

 

*smaller dog she doesn't know. She does have dogs she does know and greets off-lead.

Edit: sorry about daily updates, please contribute your stories of off-lead dogs! I'm really enjoying reading them. Geonni Banner, I would like if possible to hear more about Chewy. I have to say, I don't think I could ever own a 5lb dog. The temptation to wrap it in cotton wool would be too great. But at least it wouldn't be allowed to bite anyone!

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Grrrr. I have written SO MANY posts about my old reactive BC Buddy, and the stupidity of owners calling, "My dog is friendly" as their big, idiot lab charged at Buddy. Setting me up to be leashed in the middle of a dog fight, or their own dog to get a punctured ear.

 

Last weekend I was walking my new dog Cricket in a local wooded park. The rules of the park are posted at every entrance: dogs are to be under control of owners at all time, and should be leashed when approaching others. Because even if your dog is friendly, OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT NOT WANT TO BE APPROACHED BY THEM.

 

So, I'm taking my TWENTY-POUND dog for a loop of the woods. Two women approach with big chow-types. "Could you leash your dogs please?" "Oh, OK." Followed by the "They're actually friendly," and I reply, "Mine is terrified of dogs rushing at her. But if they meet slowly, she's fine." They watch the dog as she attempts to flee their dogs, and say, "Oh, I can see how she is. Yes, let's let them meet slowly." All is nice and sweet, dogs are all fine, taking treats and sitting together.

 

But right up the path come three women with three Pyrenees/flat-coat-retriever sized dogs between them. I call, "Could you leash your dogs, please?" They don't hear me. So, I pick Cricket up and walk on. As the dogs pass us, one stares at my dog in my arms and starts growling at me. I say, "No. No growling." The dogs move on, and I'm contentedly away from them. But, as the very large dogs meet the chow-type dogs, back where I was, I hear a massive dog fight break out - owners shouting, dogs obviously going at each other. Probably took two minutes for them to break it up.

 

Later! Other side of the same park. The big black dogs running far ahead of their oblivious owners are passing me again. I actually had to walk off the path, into poison ivy, to get far enough away that the lead black dog won't pick up our sense and come charging at us.

 

Down the path, I run into another woman with a small dog. We start to complain about how the little dogs don't have any CLUE that the big dogs are friendly, and how they get terrified being surrounded by a pack of big dogs. Then ANOTHER small dog owner joins us, comments that we are the only people with leashed dogs in the park.

 

GRR! We had all had the exact same experience with the stupid gang of black dogs. It is SO FRUSTRATING how people think their dogs' fun trumps the rights of all the other dog owners. If you want to let your dog off leash, do it. IF you have a good recall and IF you really have control of your dog. Which those types never do!

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You know, the off leash thing is the worst, but sometimes people are even idiots with their dogs ON leash.

 

I'm walking in our park, Molly's on leash and this shaggy black thing comes along. We move off the path, I put her in a sit stay, and stand in front of her. She's fine. Then this dog keeps coming and it's barking and lunging and Molly, of course, starts barking. I got her back-

 

Until the idiot woman on the other end of the leash lets out about 10 feet of long lead and walks directly into our face. While her dog is lunging and snarling and pitching a fit. Molly loses it when her dog is about 3 feet away and straining to get into her face, still lunging and growling and barking. From idiot woman I get "Why would you take such a mean dog in public!?"

 

REALLY?!

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Geonni Banner, I would like if possible to hear more about Chewy. I have to say, I don't think I could ever own a 5lb dog. The temptation to wrap it in cotton wool would be too great. But at least it wouldn't be allowed to bite anyone!

I PMed you about this.

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We had an issue locally with leash laws and loose dogs. http://6abc.com/pets/german-shepherd-puppy-shot-killed-in-roxborough-park/965825/

 

The unfortunate fact is, had they been obeying the leash law, their dog would be alive. I'm not saying I think the dog deserved to die, but it was his owner's responsibility to keep him being a responsible member of society. In addition to the dog-dog issues, sometimes people don't want dogs near them either.

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I took Cricket back to that park yesterday, very early in the morning (in hope it would be more solitary). We stepped far off the path a couple times, which usually cues other owners into the fact that we don't want to meet their dogs. One big dog came trotting up, and the owner (too far to do anything) called, "He's friendly!" I picked Cricket up and said, "She doesn't know that!" The owner apologized.

 

I ran into the big black pyrenees/flat coat mixes, too, and picked her up. That one dog is VERY big! The owner was all, "He just wants to play!" I said, "Well, she's very frightened!" Again, embarrassed apologies.

 

My dog is pretty good if she can meet a dog slowly, on leash. She'll relax. But if she's on leash and they're not, she gets fearful and tries to run away, which triggers the other dogs to chase her around me, and things get stupid really quickly as I get tangled in the leash and I'm trying to manage my dog plus one (or two or three) others. I want to help my dog desensitize to meeting other dogs, and NOT pick her up like that... but I also really don't want her to practice and reinforce the "dogs=fear=running" behavior.

 

I think I'm going to get some cards printed showing the big dogs surrounding a tiny or fearful dog on leash, and then showing the HUMAN equivalent of that scenario: a 92-pound middle school student surrounded by a college football team. All the linebackers are poking and teasing the kid, just "being friendly."

 

What amazes me is that the owners really have no control over their dogs AT ALL, once they spot another dog and start approaching. They generally stand there calling their dogs' names, louder and louder, as their dogs completely ignore them and continue doing whatever they were doing before. It would be more helpful if they'd run away quickly, calling their dogs; at least the dogs would likely follow them.

 

(Shameful note: the first dog who came at us yesteday - barking and charging! - was a border collie. His owner said, "He's not aggressive; he's just doing his border collie thing." Oh, I could have given her a lecture about how border collies act!)

 

I think I'm going to just get all assertive, and speak some truth to these people, even if they see me in the future and think, "Here comes that female dog!" :D

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