Running?

[Chuy]

Hi all. I'm new to the boards as I adopted Chuy, a 8-10 month old bc mix earlier this week. She's fantastic - super active, very affectionate, aims to please, loves all people and dogs, etc. Unfortunately, this is the best picture I have of her as I managed to misplace my camera battery charger in a recent move...

 

I'm a runner but don't know how long I need to wait before I start to introduce my new running partner to jogging. Any suggestions? I've heard different things for different breeds, but I definitely don't want to do any long-term damage to her joints by starting too early or accelerating our distance too fast.

 

[ShoresDog]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to give you any recommendations on running (but others on this board are), but I do want to say welcome aboard, and what a lovely dog you've taken in! I hope you find that charger and we see more pictures soon! Best wishes with your new addition.

[nancy]

I checked your profile, and it doesn't say where you live. That makes a big difference right now.

 

We are in North Carolina - and we (mingie misplaced Yankees that we are) already have the AC on because it was over 90 today. You don't want to take a border collie running, especially starting a young dog, in this weather. Heck, even I won't run any time after breakfast when it's this hot and humid.

 

We got Fergie when she was ~10-11 weeks old, in March of 1996. We did not consider running with her until that fall (which is rather late around here). And we worked into it. Walked a mile a day for weeks. Then upped it to 2 miles, then to one of our usual 5K routes. Then we ran a bit and walked a bit. And gradually increased the running bits. Always pay9ng attention to how she looked. Remember, border collies will run 'til they drop if they think you expect it. We tried to let Ferg know that she had to be careful of our ability! Hey, it worked.

 

As she's getting older, we're having to again pay more attention. But she never gets beyond a trot while we're laboring and gasping.

[Chuy]

I actually live in Austin, TX, so it's definitely hot out there. I usually stick to early morning or late evening running and she has a slightly thinner coat than most BCs (due to her mix -- ?). I also run along creeks and lakes, so we'll be able to take breaks for little swims along the way, too.

 

Sounds like you guys started at 1 mile run/walks at ~10 months or so... Anyone else have a recommendation of a routine (frequency/distance/age) that worked for you or was recommended by a vet/specialist of any sort?

 

Thanks for any advice. I"m really loving this girl. Aside from some messes in the kitchen (and some early morning wake-up calls when it's clearly time to stop sleeping and start playing), she's fantastic!

[berocca]

What surface are you running on? In terms of joint problems I would avoid long runs on anything but grass at this stage.

 

A good rule of thumb for puppies is no more than 5 mins for every month they have been alive. Using this guide by 8-10 months it becomes more of a question of your fitness

 

Remember she is likely to be playing in the yard, constantly changing direction etc anyway. Running in a relatively straight line is going to be easier on her than anything she does naturally during play.

[Chuy]

I actually usually run on crushed granite or dirt running trails, but I usually have to go ~1/2 to 1 mile on asphalt and/or concrete to get to the trail (and then again to get home).

 

The five minute per month rule of thumb sounds like a good one - i'll make sure to do a pretty slow ramp up, though... So much for my furry little excuse not to be running like I should be.

 

Here's a more recent photo of her - she's an absolute joy!

 

[Criosdaidh]

Achilles is half bordercollie / half husky mix and I guess he was about 7 months old when we finished our first 5k together. Since then we have completed quite a few 4 mile runs and a few 5 mile walks. I think some of it will depend on your dogs size as a little dog will have to work much harder to keep up. Achilles is a pretty big guy so he can keep up with me doing a slow jog himself which is about the only way my big butt can jog anyways.

[sharkie]

hello and welcome!

 

i live in ATX too! are you north or south austin? we went for a 2 mile walk with my lab skye and bc clover just this weekend. skye (~10months) had no problem through the entire walk but our little clover got real tired on the return trip. i think part of this is because she has a black coat and it gets real hot when the texas sun beats on it. halfway through the trail we would let them splash and play in the creek and then in the lake to let them cool off...and trust me a plunge in the cool creek just makes all the hard panting go away

 

i would agree with what the others said of gradually increasing the distance and to gauge her fitness.

 

btw your doggies a beauty! what's her name?

[nowwown]

Hi,

 

I live in NC and run three times a week, 3-4 miles each time, with my 1-year old BC Cody. He is basically "light trotting" while I'm running! I carry water on a belt for both of us and take regular 1-minute walk breaks. We run on roads in our neighborhood. When we get back from our early morning runs (I only run very early mornings, especially in the summer) I am hot and sweaty and he is just panting a little.

 

But we have worked up to this level. I also walk him three times a day, about 2 miles each walk. On the mornings we run, that takes the place of one of the walks. And we have always walked on the roads. We don't have any safe trails nearby.

[MaggieDog]

If you want to be absolutely sure about where her joints stand in relation to running safety you might want to ask your vet to xray the growth plates and tell you whether they are closed. Before 18mo they are still open generally and thus you need to be more careful about hard exercise - i.e. hard running on pavement/concrete and long distances w/ no breaks on softer surfaces.

 

I would think gradual build up to speed and distance plus keeping her at a trot would be best at this age and lots of off lead play with other dogs to increase flexibility, endurance (and social skills).

[Blue Dog]

When I got my smooth coated male, he was 15 weeks old and it was March. We took two to three 2-3 mile walks every day. No problem. By the time it got to be June, the daily high temperatures started running in the high 90’s and I discovered that anything over a mile shut him down. I finally figured out that anything over 85°F was kind of a non-starter for him. We started limiting our exercise to very early morning.

 

Fall has finally begun to arrive in Mississippi by fits and starts. Our walks are now up into the 3-5 mile range with water stops after each mile. Blue really likes to run. When people run past us, he always wants to keep up with them. I need to run faster. I have been training for a marathon in January and my endurance is coming along nicely. Speed not so much.

 

In the last few weeks, I have been using my puppy (now 10 months old) as a speed coach. We go out to our usual one-mile walking path and walk the first lap so he can scratch, sniff, eliminate and warm up. After his usual 10 minute water and rest break, we do another mile alternating sprinting and walking in 1/8 mile (220 yard/201 meter) segments. Then we take a break, walk a mile, take a break, run/walk a mile, take a break and walk the final (5^th) mile.

 

My normal long-run pace is 9:30/Mile. Don’t laugh. I’ll be 60 in 33 more days. Blue’s 200 meter sprint pace (pulling my fat a## along) is 5:30 to 6:00 and he is no slower on his eighth sprint than his first. So net, net he is learning to run with me and I am learning to run faster. I look forward to running further with him as he gets older and it gets cooler. The five miles we did this morning (including 1,600 meters of total sprinting) put him in complete recharge mode for 3+ hours after we got home. The average temperature was 80°F and humidity 65%.

 

I hope this helps.

[juliepoudrier]

Blue Dog,

Please talk to your vet or a knowledgeable sports/rehab vet about the amount of running you're doing with your baby dog. Just because he is able to keep up with or outpace you doesn't mean he's not damaging his still growing bones/joints. These dogs will do anything we ask them to do, often to their own detriment. You don't want a dog who's at best arthritic long before he should be, or at worst a cripple, so please do some research on what is safe for a dog that age.

 

J.

[PSmitty]

Maybe I'm just overly cautious, but I wouldn't run any puppy (or young dog) before about 18 months. Walks, hikes, normal playing and romping, agility classes or working sheep, I'm ok with. But repetitive motion type exercise for long distances would worry me.

[juliepoudrier]

I don't think you're overly cautious at all. I want my dogs to stay sound for work for a good long time, so we don't do any high-impact repetitive exercise when they're young. I have had and do have older dogs who are arthritic. It's not fun to watch them moving painfully, and if there's anything I can do to help avoid that I will.

 

J.

[Sue R]

Since I read Blue Dog's post on my phone, I did not post a reply but I am glad that Paula and Julie did as the amount and type of exercise seemed way too much for a youngster of the age(s) described, and I'd like to second (or third) their comments.

 

I have two dogs that did a lot of activity when young, chasing balls (I used a Chuck-It) and jumping on and off big round hay bales. One has arthritis in both his front wrists and the other simply has a very weak front end and is prone to biceps and triceps injuries. I wonder how much of that would have been avoided if I had been more knowledgeable and limited their activity to safer pursuits when they were young and still growing?

 

These dogs are very stoic, always ready to go and keep up, and sometimes it's very hard to not view them as indestructible but that is not the case. I think they are likely to hurt themselves if we do not regulate, particularly at a young age when their skeleton and musculature are still growing. Ask anyone who has been a dedicated youth athlete if they are affected In maturity by the aftereffects of injuries and overwork incurred when young. I think most would concur.

[Blue Dog]

I am a little confused. I know better than to drag Blue along on my 10+ mile jogs but 200 meters? Eight times over nearly three hours? Once a week? Really? He runs farther and much faster on his own in pursuit of squirrels and geese. Also, he is not doing it to please me. He is pleasing himself. I am the one saying whoa.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'll heed your advice and value your experience if only I am sure you understand what I am doing. I was also under the impression that he was done growing (up if not out) at nine months or so.

 

Thanks for all of the input.

[CptJack]

There are two things in play:

1-) The surface you are running on and

 

2-) The dog is doing it because it's fun and exciting. Because it is fun and exciting and you are playing the game with her, you are encouraging her/egging her on. Just running with her is really all it takes. If I ran my Border Collie would chase me until she fell over and died. If she's chasing a squirrel or playing on her own, she will pay some attention to her body and limits and eventually stop (unless it's a particularly tenacious squirrel but mostly they get up trees fast). If I throw a ball, she will NOT stop chasing it on her own - ever, no matter how tired or hurt. She's chased balls over the sides of mountains (after she nose butted it over. that was horrifying, and we got more careful). I've seen her fling herself over ditches that were 3 feet wide when wind caught a frisbee. I've seen her come back from running dripping blood because she'd torn out a toenail, drop the ball and wag at me because she wanted more. I've seen her SNAP HER CANINES OFF playing tug with another dog - when she was a tiny baby - and still refuse to give up the bloody (literally) toy.

 

They're not big on self preservation. They're big on getting the job done. You HAVE to stop the dog LONG before the dog is willing to stop itself when it is doing something it finds fun, and you have to err on the side of caution because odds are high your dog is not, ever, going to say 'that's enough' or 'this causes me pain'.

[GentleLake]

At 9 months the growth plates aren't closed and replaced by solid bone yet. That won't happen till he's 12-18 months old. Up till that time the bones are vulnerable to damage from chronic stress or overuse. Repetitive motion like linear running (as opposed to the types of irregular and sporadic running during play) can lead to injuries that can cause problems later in life even when there's not immediate damage, which is also a concern.

[juliepoudrier]

Blue dog,

It was not clear that you weren't taking you pup running with you on a regular basis. What you describe in your second post is more reasonable, but having to say "whoa" yourself isn't a good measure of whether he's had enough (or too much) for the reasons others have described. My youngsters certainly sprint around when I talk them on long walks in the back pastures, but most of the sprinting is quite short lived, and the ambling, sniffing, jogging, etc., is more sustained.

 

At any rate, no young dog is fully grown at 9-10 months. They continue growing (growth plates, especially) until 18 or so months. Any high-impact, repetitive exercise can harm them, more so before the growth plates have closed, but after as well.

 

That's not to say that your youngster, when finally mature, can't go on long runs with you, but be cognizant of the fact that even then, he's likely to go till collapse if you aren't careful about regulating him.

 

J.

[Blue Dog]

Got it. Thanks. We will stick to walking for another eight months or really 12 because in June, it will be too hot for both of us again.