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Dear Doggers,

Vicki Hearne's refutation of "Animal rights" theorists was (my too brief paraphrase) that rights cannot be extended to species who cannot understand them. It's interesting that a variant seems to be playing out in court.

 

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/28/us-new-york-lawsuit-chimps-idUSKBN0OC2O520150528

 

Donald McCaig

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The article says, "Last year, a state appeals court rejected the group's bid to extend "legal personhood" to the apes, saying they are incapable of bearing the responsibilities that come with those rights."

 

But don't human beings who are babies, mentally incompetent, insane or in a coma also have those rights extended to them? They are also incapable of bearing the responsibilities that come with those rights.

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I really think the higher apes need to be protected. I'm kind of an animal rights person but I try not to go overboard.

 

It's hard. I work with so many dogs and cats and they are all such little individuals. They may not be able to think or reason anywhere near human level but they certainly are capable of feeling and more importantly of suffering.

 

It's a sticky wicket. I always take the side of the animals.

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Humans incapacitated by infancy or other disability have guardians appointed for them to manage their affairs. It's done to protect them, but has the effect of taking away their right to legal autonomy. Anyway, I understood Mr. McCaig to say "species", not "individuals," so I"m not sure that argument is exactly on point.

 

I abhor the use of chimps in laboratories, but I don't see why we need to grant them legal rights to stop it. Why not just ban the use of chimps in research? Or captivity? In South Carolina, we did that with cetaceans. You cannot have dolphins, killer whales, etc in captivity in SC. Passed that law decades ago.

 

I think making chimps into people creates way more problems for them than it solves. When they attack people, will they be imprisoned? Hardly seems fair, since attacking other primates is a perfectly acceptable thing to do if you're a chimp. So is rape, and cannibalism and a whole bunch of other behaviors we frown upon.

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I probably fall more in the animal welfare group. I just can't stand to see animals mistreated. But all the higher primates should be protected from humans. It's nice to see the bigger zoos providing wonderful habitat and protection for them. KC has a new orangutan habitat. They have lost so much of their habitat in the wild. Same forchimps and gorillas.

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The biggest issue I see with animal rights is our ability to make decisions for our animals could be compromised. An animal that has the same rights as a human can not be put down when it is suffering. And we could have to answer to others when choosing the amount and type of treatment we give for various conditions.

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I think if we as a society placed greater emphasis on animal welfare and enforcement/improvement of welfare laws, we wouldn't have to worry about animal rights. <--And that term is fraught anyway. I believe animals have the right to humane treatment and kind and compassionate care.

 

J.

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Dear Philosophers,

 

The problem with Animal Rights theorists, including and self-confessedly Dr Singer, is that they don't know much about animals, don't care for them and don't care for them or need them but AR's are a useful corrective to those whose motivations are pure profit or the routine corruptions of our species for whom animal welfare and/or survival is a very low priority Fact is: humans've never been good with other species. (See "mastodon") Plains indians, often held up as a recent exemplar shipped 100,000 cow buffalo robes to St Louis in a single season and I've never seen an accurate estimate of the dogs slaughtered when patriotic brits prepared for German invasion in WW2. Oops. Forgot about that. The good thing about Animal Rights theorists, however ignorant and sentimental, is that they give animal welfare types, like myself a left wing we're not as bad as. They give us negotiating power.

 

Donald McCaig

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Dear Philosophers,

 

I've never seen an accurate estimate of the dogs slaughtered when patriotic brits prepared for German invasion in WW2. Oops. Forgot about that.

 

Donald McCaig

http://atpeacewithpink.blogspot.com/2015/06/evacuate-children-put-up-backout.html

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