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Training a 9 month old Puppy


Chianne
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I have a 9 month old pup that I have taken to sheep a few times starting at 7 1/2 months old in a very controlled environment to protect him and the sheep. The first few times he lacked confidence and shyed away. I made the training very short, about 5 minutes but kept taking him to sheep.

 

His next phase was getting close to the sheep and barking. I them put him on a line, per the trainers advise and just walked behind the sheep keeping him under control. This seemed to have helped as now he is starting to balance at times and his tail is down and he seems to be starting to get it. He does still lack all the confidence he needs but it is clear he is ganing confidence.

 

I have been really working on simple obedience at home and a good stop. He is doing well in that regard.

 

Sweep is a very high drive BC, I had his pedigree analyzed and was told he has a ton of Templeton in him, mostly Ben, but Roy and Moss as well.

 

My question is should I continue with what i am doing, just walking behind the sheep with him on a long lead or trying to work on flanks in a round pen?

 

I have made arrangements to send him away to a trainer in the fall and want him well prepared.

 

Thanks for any help in advance.

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Since you have made arrangements to send him to a trainer in the fall, I would ask them.

The dogs I have sent off for training where never purposely exposed to working sheep.

It is so simple to make mistakes with a young dog if you are not an experienced handler. These mistakes can plague a dog it's whole working life.

If it was me I would just enjoy the young dog and look forward to having the trainer start it.

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I agree with what Covelo Dogs said!

 

Most trainers I know would rather start a youngster with a "clean slate" than one that might have had some problems instilled, no matter how inadvertently. I did a few things with my first dog that I felt were sensible and not harmful, but I realized after that what I did was not helping him prepare for real training.

 

One top trainer says that what he likes to see in a dog or youngster that comes to him is that the dog knows his/her name; has a good recall; and can take a correction. I think it also, for most people, is to have a dog with basic manners and obedience in order to help the dog to be a pleasure to live with.

 

Best wishes!

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Agree with what others have said. Bruce Fogt's book, "Lessons from a Stock Dog", provides many examples of things that went wrong when he was first learning to train his dogs all on his own. It's far better to work with someone who knows what they're doing. Pups' first experiences with sheep can be critical, and it's important to make these positive. I don't have the skills to train a pup, which is why I work with those who do.

 

The person I train with agrees that basic obedience (as distinct from "formal obedience", where you're trying to train very formal moves) is beneficial, so it sounds as if you're on the right track there. Even trick training serves a purpose if it's helping to build a relationship between dog and handler. Of course there are many top handlers who don't train much beyond a recall, a "lie down", and basic manners. I've heard some say that anything more is a waste of time, though I know several top handlers who happen to disagree with that assessment.

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A correction is a reprimand - "No, not that!" So, just like a person, a dog may respond in different ways to a correction, which can be anything from a verbal "no" to something like putting on pressure to make the dog uncomfortable doing the wrong thing (like going around the stock to the wrong point). Some dogs may sulk. Some may be so soft that they back off too much when corrected. Some may quit entirely. Some may try to blow off the correction and so you may have to ramp it up - going maybe from verbal to moving yourself into a position to put on pressure, or using your arm with your stick (which is acting as an extension of your arm not as something to cause physical punishment) to increase the intensity of the correction.

 

A good dog that can take a correction will, when corrected, respond by offering a different behavior. If what the dog offers is then appropriate and right, you let the dog work on. If what the dog offers is still wrong, you correct again and give the dog the chance to offer a different behavior. These smart, willing, and biddable dogs will tend to offer a new behavior until they get the right one, and then you let them "have their stock" by allowing them to continue to work.

 

A dog that can't take a correction is hard to train. A dog that has learned to offer another behavior and keep on trying, is a dog that you can work with and train to bring out the best that he or she has to offer.

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Thanks Sue. Sweep is very biddable. I'm new to herding and wondered how harsh a correction may be in herding. He resonds well to pressure, even if I lean forward a bit.

 

I am taking him to a Lyle Lad clinic in May.

 

I did email Angie, where he is going for training. She just replied:

 

Don't worry about him on sheep, take him to the clinic and see how he does, you don't have to work him every day or even once a week, time can take care of a lot. Obedience is good. The only thing I would not continue to do is drive with him, done a lot he will think that is what he is always suppose to do.

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Lyle is great and so is Angie (Coker-Sells, I'm assuming).

 

Level of correction is normally based on two things, at least in my limited experience. The degree of "wrong" behavior and how much the dog should have known it was wrong behavior from past experience. I'm sure someone can give you a better answer. Most corrections are just the application of pressure, and release of pressurexwhen the dog is right. Sometimes there is need for stronger verbal and more "impressive" physical response (I am not saying any form of punitive correction or force) but just more emphatic pressure.

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Corrections in herding should not be severe, especially with a young dog who doesn't know much. The correction should match the level of skill and training the dog actually has.

A thing to be aware of is this: the sheer mental pressure of being told "no" on sheep can be a lot for a young dog, when he's first starting out. That's what we mean by saying one should be sure a dog is ready for the pressure of corrections. It's not that someone will be chasing him around with a stick bellowing "NO," it's that he could easily be upset or confused by a handler interfering with his youthful need to indulge his working instincts. If he is too immature in his mind, a simple "ah-ah" could be upsetting to him. As you say, he's sensitive to you just leaning towards him. A correction on sheep, if his mind is still too unprepared, could give him the idea that he's not supposed to work at all.

So, going easy and waiting for a young dog to come along at his own speed is a good course. You don't need to hurry. You don't need to rush. You're not going to miss anything if you just let him come along slowly and under skilled guidance.

It's much easier to work with a young dog that doesn't know much than it is to "fix" a young dog that's inadvertently learned incorrect behaviors due to unskilled handling.

Best of luck with your youngster! :)

Gloria

 

Thanks Sue. Sweep is very biddable. I'm new to herding and wondered how harsh a correction may be in herding. He responds well to pressure, even if I lean forward a bit.

 

I am taking him to a Lyle Lad clinic in May.

 

I did email Angie, where he is going for training. She just replied:

Don't worry about him on sheep, take him to the clinic and see how he does, you don't have to work him every day or even once a week, time can take care of a lot. Obedience is good. The only thing I would not continue to do is drive with him, done a lot he will think that is what he is always suppose to do.

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Thanks for all the help!

Sweep isn't a soft dog, but he's not hard either. When I did take him to sheep I was encouraging and just stopped when he started barking and lunging at them. I've been doing a lot of obedience and all it took to make him stop and come was a, "That'll do!" and he came to me. I didn't correct him, just stopped the session.

I think I will keep working on 'here', 'that'll do', Lie down' and walking nicely on a leash to prepare him for Angie in the fall.

I'm sure Lyle will help with some advise at the clinic as well. One last bit of direction from Angie:

No chasing or working stock on his own or running the fence with them on the other side.


Again, thanks :-)

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Thanks for all the help!

 

Sweep isn't a soft dog, but he's not hard either. When I did take him to sheep I was encouraging and just stopped when he started barking and lunging at them. I've been doing a lot of obedience and all it took to make him stop and come was a, "That'll do!" and he came to me. I didn't correct him, just stopped the session.

 

I think I will keep working on 'here', 'that'll do', Lie down' and walking nicely on a leash to prepare him for Angie in the fall.

 

I'm sure Lyle will help with some advise at the clinic as well. One last bit of direction from Angie:

 

 

Again, thanks :-)

 

 

It sounds like you're on to a good plan. If he's barking and lunging at the sheep, his mind just isn't ready yet and you don't want to risk accidentally getting something confused in his puppy brain. Waiting until he's ready for a professional trainer's scrutiny is, in my humble opinion, the safest bet.

 

But working on your relationship and communications OFF sheep in the meantime is always a good thing. :)

 

~ Gloria

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