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So, my two boys are getting along very nicely. Juno the young one is still pretty mouthy but getting better. Here is a little clip of them doing their thing which I only allow them to do for a few minutes a day. I want Juno to bond to me...not Tio. Tio is usually the instigator and never plays rough but Juno can get wound up. I always pull the plug before they get too crazy and give them both a rest time separated. Juno is tied to my belt anytime he isn't in his cage.

 

Anyway, what are your thoughts on this kind of "play" given that it's monitored and restricted to a few minutes a day? The reason I ask is Juno is a pretty dominant, pushy and stubborn little guy and I don't want to do anything that reinforces those traits any further. Tio is such a puss I don't think he's much help in playing the top dog.

 

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I watched a little over half the video and don't see any problems. Tio could easily have stood up and given the young whippersnapper a correction and he didn't. Notice his body - it's loose and easy, not stiff. His moves are appropriate to the pup's moves.

 

What will likely happen, and you should keep an eye out for this, is that somewhere after 3-4 months, the older dog starts to get a little less forgiving of the pup. He'll start to snap, or move away, not engage at all. This is appropriate and it is how puppies learn to be well mannered around other dogs.

 

There is the occasional adult dog who is indeed a wuss and doesn't protect themselves or discipline a younger dog. You'll have to keep an eye on the play and intervene if Tio doesn't take care of it.

 

Having only one border collie, after having 3 at the same time, I miss the sound of happily wrestling dogs. Enjoy it!

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

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One more trick to figuring if it's fun for everyone or a real fight. Pull the dogs apart, send them to their corners, so to speak. Don't scold or worry. Release them after a minute. If they both go right back to it, with tails wagging loosely, you've got a play loving pair. If one of them shrinks away, or if the body language gets stiff and rigid, then there's something serious going on and you need to take a look at that.

 

I will never forget the day I heard a series of loud knocking sounds, accompanied by growls. Upon investigation I discovered that Buzz was dragging Samantha down the hallway by the nape of her neck. The knocking sound was her head hitting the walls. I was horrified, pulled them apart and told them to settle for a minute. The second I released them Sam ran over to Buzz, he rolled over on his back and she started dragging him around the living room. Both of them growled and grumbled the whole time, but it was a favorite game.

 

You'll get to know the difference between the playful noises and the 'stop that or I'll hurt you' noises. Enjoy these two boys!

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

 

PS - you're right to limit their time together. You want to be the center of each dog's world. Juno needs to learn good behavior from other dogs, which humans can't teach. Tio seems to love having a little bro to push around. Do keep it short and sweet, so that they can learn that you are the most important.

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You know, I honestly made no effort whatsoever to try to get Bandit to bond to me more than to the other dogs, particularly Dean, who became his "mama dog" for several months.

 

For a while it did seem that he was bonded more to Dean than he was to me, but now I would say Bandit is bonded most to me. It happened very naturally, as a result of spending time working with him. I especially saw our bond deepen when we started taking sport oriented classes together.

 

I'm not saying everyone has to do it that way. I simply couldn't be bothered to try to make myself the center of Bandit's world and I let him and Dean play all they wanted, except when it was clear that Dean had enough and needed a break, or I could see that Bandit was getting punchy. I figured it would happen when it happened, and eventually it did. I thought it was really sweet that he and Dean were so close up until Bandit hit adolescence. They still get along very well, but they interact in much more grown up ways. Now Bandit gazes at me with those adoring eyes and I didn't really try to make it that way.

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Thank you for the comments and advice. Mum24dog....."bitey face".....that's about right, eh. :D My wife watches and comments...That's gotta hurt with those little needle teeth.., right? Tio seems to like it though.

 

It's interesting that only after a few of these wrestling sessions Juno's bite inhibition has really improved toward us. He would really chomp down on my 12 yr old daughter but now he's mellowed right out.

 

Breaking them up takes one word..."treat"... ;)

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It's interesting that only after a few of these wrestling sessions Juno's bite inhibition has really improved toward us. He would really chomp down on my 12 yr old daughter but now he's mellowed right out.

 

Well..Tio is showing Juno what level of biting is unacceptable during dog-play. At points in the video,..it looks to me as if Tio is putting his mouth around your pup's muzzle and occasionally just after doing this he pulls back for a second. This is an adult dog's way of gently correcting a pup's over- enthusiasm...

 

It's great that Juno has got such a good mentor in Tio

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Ya, it'll be interesting to see how their relationship evolves. Right now I'm so happy and relieved Tio is cool with another dog in the house....even a little happier. About the only thing I can see Tio getting aggravated with is Juno barking while in his pen. He looks at me with a "You gonna do something about that noise?"..look.

We're working on it.

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You know, I honestly made no effort whatsoever to try to get Bandit to bond to me more than to the other dogs, particularly Dean, who became his "mama dog" for several months.

 

<snip>

I'm not saying everyone has to do it that way. I simply couldn't be bothered to try to make myself the center of Bandit's world and I let him and Dean play all they wanted....

 

I'm going to surprise Kristine by agreeing! :D

 

My four-month-old and my nearly two year old play a lot. It's certainly helpful when I'm trying to get freelance work done. I do spend some one-on-one time with the puppy training tricks and the like, but like Kristine, I'm not killing myself trying to make myself the center of her world, and for similar reasons. Once she discovers stock, I will be the center of her world, and for now, as long as she learns manners within the pack and respect for the old dog(s) and the cats (and me when I need her to) that's good enough for me.

 

J.

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I'm going to surprise Kristine by agreeing! :D

 

My four-month-old and my nearly two year old play a lot. It's certainly helpful when I'm trying to get freelance work done. I do spend some one-on-one time with the puppy training tricks and the like, but like Kristine, I'm not killing myself trying to make myself the center of her world, and for similar reasons. Once she discovers stock, I will be the center of her world, and for now, as long as she learns manners within the pack and respect for the old dog(s) and the cats (and me when I need her to) that's good enough for me.

 

J.

I'd be surprised if you didn't agree.

 

I know someone who was totally anal about keeping her pup away from her other dogs for fear that she would bond more with them than her. She grew up no more or less bonded than the pup belonging to a friend of hers that spent her time with her other dogs when she was out at work.

 

I haven't done huge amount of training with my pup but he has had 1-1 time with me. I am stepping up the training now and am perfectly satisfied with the bond we have.

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One of our great joys was watching our dogs play, and it is one of the things we miss since we lost Brody. When Rievaulx was a puppy Brody would go to work with my husband and when they came home he would come rushing in the house looking for the puppy and they would engage in an impressive wrestling demonstration, I used to call it WWF meets Rugby. As Rievaulx got older the games became more complex but even when Brods was sick he still loved to try and wrestle and beat his younger brother up.

 

Having had 2 pairs of dogs that had great relationships I think it is such a shame that within certain styles of training there is an obsession of having the puppy become the center of your universe to the detriment of letting them develop a relationship with their dog family members, I am the center of Rievaulxs universe but he had no problem having a great relationship with a dog as well.

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The 'not letting dogs play together too much' technique might be a mistaken generalization from preventing littermate syndrome, where you do run the risk of the dogs not bonding well to people. Since the adult dogs in the household are already people-focused, they won't foster the same sort of codependency that you can see in littermates. It's not a bad idea to do some separation training every day while the pup is young, but it doesn't need to be near-total.

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There's a training guy over here (John Rogerson) who has advocated keeping a pup separate from other dogs in the family for the first 6 months. I don't know whether he still does. It never made any sense to me and suggested that maybe he is a bit insecure about his ability to keep his dogs' focus.

 

You're right d112358, it's not as if family dogs only have each other to bond with, and I would guess that the more dogs you have the less of a problem it will be because the involvement with each will likely be spread more thinly. My pup has had 4 other to choose from and tries to get them all to play.

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In dog sports, some people enthusiastically declare "All good things come through me!" as an explanation of why they strive to control all resources. My response was I hoped with time that my dog would think that the best things came through me. Some people go to great lengths to make their puppies only want to be with them, including isolating them almost completely from their other dogs which I personally think is sad.

 

My Sheltie girl was left all day with my boy Sheltie while I was at work when she was a puppy. He was incredibly indulgent with her and I am sure they played constantly while I was gone, since they did when I was home. She did actually love him more than me. It was a bit disconcerting at first. But even though he was the sun in her universe and I was the much dimmer moon, she still left him at a second's notice if I called her to play or train. Our bond was not harmed by her strong bond to him and she was a good little performance dog.

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Like with all things I guess...balance and common sense.

These two are getting along well as you can see in the video and the wrestling only lasts a few minutes usually and then they are both off doing something else or following me around. Their tug-o-war over toys has started getting a little ramped up though which I have to shut down. Sometimes I forget that Tio is still just a pup, too. Regardless, they both know that all the really good stuff comes through me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just an update for those interested. The boys are famous best friends now and even though the wrestling has really ramped up in intensity they cool off and lick each other for a few minutes....before getting back at it. We're having a blast watching them.

 

Juno is looking very handsome and very wolf cub like these days....very intense eyes..

 

juno%204%20months_zpsnlcwpoh1.jpg

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