service dogs

[ejano]

Saw a lady in Wal-Mart today with a red Aussie that was wearing the service dog pack. The dog was 18 months old and growling at everyone that came near it (for which it was being corrected -- she looped the end of the leash around the dog's muzzle....!) She said that the dog had its CGC and she had gotten the pack and accompanying pack and patches from a website called SitStay. Is this all one has to do? Declare the dog a service dog and that's it? I would have thought there was a great more to it than that. This dog did not seem at all steady or dependable. It was jumping at the noise of the carts, growing as people approached the woman and she was allowing little kids near it.

 

If Robin is ever going to be a service dog for me, I'd like to do it right... at six months he's more steady than this poor pup was.

 

Liz

[Laurelin]

There is no real standardization for service dogs. It's kind of a tough spot because you don't want to make it harder for someone who truly needs a service dog to get one. I believe they can ask you what tasks the dog performs that helps with your disability but they cannot ask you about your disability. It is a fine line between protecting people from out of control 'service dogs' and protecting the rights of people that need service dogs.

 

I have seen a service dog that was behaving similarly to the one you saw. It was a labradoodle inside chick-fil-a. It was lunging at every passerby and barking but no one did anything. I have friends that train service dogs though and they said a disruptive service dog can and should be asked to leave. They also suggested calling the program that trained the dog and informing them of its poor behavior (assuming the dog wasn't owner trianed of course, which seems to be more and more the case).

[desertranger]

Unfortunately Ejano that's about all there is to it. Not even a requirement for a prescription or letter from your doctor. About the only thing that is a requirement is that you are legally disabled and can benefit from an SD. However there is a legal definition for SD's

 

1. The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.

 

Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. Guide dogs are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:

 

_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.

_ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.

_ Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance.

 

A service animal is not a pet.

 

2. * Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability.

 

* People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be charged extra fees, isolated from other patrons, or treated less favorably than other patrons. However, if a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.

 

* A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.

 

* In these cases, the business should give the person with the disability the option to obtain goods and services without having the animal on the premises.

* Businesses that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.

 

* A business is not required to provide care or food for a service animal or provide a special location for it to relieve itself.

 

* Allergies and fear of animals are generally not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people with service animals.

 

* Violators of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.

 

There is also a behavior standard for SDs and while the CGC encompasses some of it the CGC doesn't qualify a dog to be an SD. Jin has his CGC and he is still a bit reactive to other dogs. Therefore he remains an SDiT, Service Dog in Training, until I've completely trained his reactivity out and he can completely pass the PAT standard as discussed in this thread.

 

If someone claims a dog is an SD it will be easy to see. An SD is as solid as a rock. Auto-sits most of the time, does not sniff around, bark, growl, act aggressively, follows all commands at least 90% of the time and has been trained to perform specific tasks. Program trained SDs won't even respond to an attack. The rule is act passive. Another tip off is if the person produces an ID or certification of some sort. None of the PWDs (Persons With Disabilities, the official acronym) I know would ever produce such a card. It's demeaning and it's an insult to other any one who is disabled.

 

The clincher is however "Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself" Therefore the owner of a business may ask what task does your dog perform for you. I'm trying to teach Jin to pick up anything I drop since I can't always bend or squat down. I'm also teaching him to be a brace to lean on making it easier to get up.

 

There was a story in SF about a guy with an Psych dog that was aggressive and that bit people even bit the reporter. No one can do anything because he says it's an SD. Yes his dog can be an SD but IMO not one allowed in public, it's vicious andl a vicious dog and should not be allowed in public. So if he brings that dog into a store and it behaves inappropriately he can be asked to remove the animal. Proof of an SD in public is in it's behavior.

 

Enough for now. Hear's some further reading I found.

 

http://www.assistancedogsinternational.org...2005_1stEdB.pdf

 

Do not be afraid to ask about an SD. A person who has a true SD won't get angry and will sprbably spend some time educatiing you. A person with a phoney SD get's uptight, righteous and indignant and doesn;t know the law.

 

BTW I got Abby's pack and Jin's saddle bags at SitStay and his SD vest and SD patches elsewhere.

 

A vest alone does not make an SD. Knowing the law is a businesses only defense. If you feel the dog is a disruption you may ask him to leave.

[Tranquilis]

The dog was 18 months old and growling at everyone that came near it (for which it was being corrected -- she looped the end of the leash around the dog's muzzle....!) She said that the dog had its CGC and she had gotten the pack and accompanying pack and patches from a website called SitStay. Is this all one has to do? Declare the dog a service dog and that's it?

Sadly, you can do exactly that, and often get away with it. Presumably the CGC was not properly earned, if this woman wasn't simply lying outright.

[ejano]

Interesting....the dog is being trained by the owner (she said). I'd like to train Robin to pick up things for me (as Desert Ranger said) but so far he's only really good at finding socks under the bed and chewing holes in them . I'm also working on really good behavior on and off leash as he is tall enough that I can put my hand down to steady myself a bit if need be because of the neuropathy in my feet from the chemotherapy - though I am hoping this will eventually go away as it is improving somewhat. But I'm not sure those tasks would qualify him to earn the title of service dog and he's already welcome in all the places I'd want to take him.

 

I felt bad for the dog. He was clearly out of his element and this was a small WalMart. The scariest thing is that he looked enough like Robin to be his cousin....didn't look like an Aussie at all, except of course, no tail.

 

Liz

[desertranger]

Liz I started Jin by taking him through a couple of obedience classes. I also read a couple of books despite the fact I've trained dogs for as long as I have. My thought was I'm the student not the dog and I was there to learn how to be a dog trainer. This has made it a lot easier to teach Jin a lot of things. However I've hit a plateau so I'm going to have to get Jin a couple of lessons or perhaps another class early next year. At the moment I'm just re-enforcing what he's learned while trying to teach him a couple of tricks. Seem to have a problem with him picking up objects and giving them to me. I think the answer is I use traditional methods of teaching which are fine for working but I dont think so for what I need now. I'm also kind of leery and unknowing about the new methods, shaping and OC (clicker) training.

[ejano]

Liz I started Jin by taking him through a couple of obedience classes. I also read a couple of books despite the fact I've trained dogs for as long as I have. My thought was I'm the student not the dog and I was there to learn how to be a dog trainer. This has made it a lot easier to teach Jin a lot of things. However I've hit a plateau so I'm going to have to get Jin a couple of lessons or perhaps another class early next year. At the moment I'm just re-enforcing what he's learned while trying to teach him a couple of tricks. Seem to have a problem with him picking up objects and giving them to me. I think the answer is I use traditional methods of teaching which are fine for working but I dont think so for what I need now. I'm also kind of leery and unknowing about the new methods, shaping and OC (clicker) training.

 

 

Good advice. I've been reading up on obedience rally and the first piece of advice is to be the student yourself and practice the various patterns before introducing the dog to them.

 

I also keep repeating that patience is a virtue...because they are so responsive, I really expect too much out of them and forget that they are still pups. We've been very fortunate in our rescue dogs in that they had perfect manners. Both Ladybug and Scotty came to us very advanced in obedience and knowing quite a lot of language so it was very easy, once they'd relaxed and settled in, to ask for and get a correct response.

 

I'm going with the clicker training with Robin. He's quite responsive to that. I'm saving my pennies to have a Karen Pyror trained clicker trainer come to the house and work with us. I was so proud tonight. He came barreling down the stairs to the TV room and instead of launching himself into Ken's recliner he went directly to his mat, which I put on the seating ledge on the fireplace wall!!!! . I've only done two short sessions with him, several days apart and he's getting it!

 

There are many others who can advise on the clicker much more than I, but I basically started by clicking each time he mouthed the ball and calling come - probably confused the heck out of him, which is why I need a trainer to teach me . But once purely by accident he brought the ball with him when he came back to me and I threw it back for him, it was all downhill from there. He doesn't know the words yet, though. He's retrieving fun stuff pretty well...balls, and toys that I throw but responds to hand signals. He brings a ball halfway back and I show him my open hands and he goes, oh yeah, that's right....gotta bring it TO you....he's a good boy.

 

Liz

[vaporflowers]

If someone claims a dog is an SD it will be easy to see. An SD is as solid as a rock. Auto-sits most of the time, does not sniff around, bark, growl, act aggressively, follows all commands at least 90% of the time and has been trained to perform specific tasks. Program trained SDs won't even respond to an attack. The rule is act passive. Another tip off is if the person produces an ID or certification of some sort. None of the PWDs (Persons With Disabilities, the official acronym) I know would ever produce such a card. It's demeaning and it's an insult to other any one who is disabled.

 

I disagree with some of this. I am a trainer at a school for the blind, and program trained dogs will still generally react to an attack from another dog or person or whatever. We cannot possibly prepare them for every situation, and while the dogs are as close to bomb-proof as we can make them, they are still dogs at the end of the day. Our students, during their month-long stay with us, are repeatedly advised how to handle such a situation.

 

Also, we provide ID cards and the vast majority of students are happy to accept them and bring them everywhere. It goes a long way towards educating store workers who are ignorant of the laws, and clarifies the dog's purpose.

 

Unfortunately, my experiences with individually-trained service dogs have been overwhelmingly negative, and most are making acceptance harder for those truly in need of a service dog.

[martySQ]

Liz I started Jin by taking him through a couple of obedience classes. I also read a couple of books despite the fact I've trained dogs for as long as I have. My thought was I'm the student not the dog and I was there to learn how to be a dog trainer. This has made it a lot easier to teach Jin a lot of things. However I've hit a plateau so I'm going to have to get Jin a couple of lessons or perhaps another class early next year. At the moment I'm just re-enforcing what he's learned while trying to teach him a couple of tricks. Seem to have a problem with him picking up objects and giving them to me. I think the answer is I use traditional methods of teaching which are fine for working but I dont think so for what I need now. I'm also kind of leery and unknowing about the new methods, shaping and OC (clicker) training.

Ranger, Bess is just a little older than Jin, and she just started putting the tennis ball in my lap last night...of her own accord... then I transitioned it to my hand. don't know if this is a just a jag or a action that will stick of her own accord... but I found it interesting to watch her reasoning. also, when I am at the computer, she brings the ball and usually drops it just out of reach...lately, I have been saying.."Ball? Here? and she looks at the ball like it is stupid that it can't obey and usually brings it closer to me.

[desertranger]

Multiple messed up posts deleted. Not sure how that happened. #1

[desertranger]

Multiple messed up posts deleted. Not sure how that happened. #2

[desertranger]

I disagree with some of this. I am a trainer at a school for the blind, and program trained dogs will still generally react to an attack from another dog or person or whatever. We cannot possibly prepare them for every situation, and while the dogs are as close to bomb-proof as we can make them, they are still dogs at the end of the day. Our students, during their month-long stay with us, are repeatedly advised how to handle such a situation.

I'm aware that there is no such thing as a bombproof dog. Twice yesterday Jin got snarked once by a dog that wouldn't leave him alone despite my asking the owner to remove him and get your dog under control and again last night at dinner. We were just sitting there both dogs down and relaxed and a kid about 6-7 at the next table made an agressive move toward Jin and both times he reacted. The dog I kicked and hope I brokes it's ribs, the kid I scared into crying. Hope that's teach the little monster you don't jump at a dog. I spend a more than normal amount of working on Jin with this and it's still a problem.

 

 

Also, we provide ID cards and the vast majority of students are happy to accept them and bring them everywhere. It goes a long way towards educating store workers who are ignorant of the laws, and clarifies the dog's purpose.

 

There are two schools of though on that pro and con. Some PWDs with SDs will scream about how it's demeaning to produce ID of any kind and are against the registration of SDs and the others who take the opposite view. This is something that eventually will have to be decided in the courts. In the meantime I remain against ID cards, and registration until it has some validity under the law.

 

 

Unfortunately, my experiences with individually-trained service dogs have been overwhelmingly negative, and most are making acceptance harder for those truly in need of a service dog.

 

 

Unfortunately, my experiences with those who train service dogs have been overwhelmingly negative as well. So far I have found them to be elitist, snobby and full of the "you are trying to do the impossible" attitude. So you see there's two sides of the coin.

 

Anyway I'd like to hear more on that because I can't afford a program dog nor can I afford training so I do my best. I also work as hard as those in the programs training Jin only I don't know what the pitfalls are and program trainers seem to be loath to share the information so I have to educate myself including the what to teach Jin, his physical training and studying the ADA and SD law (do you teach that to your students?) I have yet to meet another individually-trained SD and really would like to know your experience.

 

Ranger, Bess is just a little older than Jin, and she just started putting the tennis ball in my lap last night...of her own accord... then I transitioned it to my hand. don't know if this is a just a jag or a action that will stick of her own accord... but I found it interesting to watch her reasoning. also, when I am at the computer, she brings the ball and usually drops it just out of reach...lately, I have been saying.."Ball? Here? and she looks at the ball like it is stupid that it can't obey and usually brings it closer to me.

 

Jin has a game he plays when bringing the ball back. He won't put it in my hand but teases me with it until he's ready top release it. He knows what I want. My warning: Watch out Liz is training you.

[vaporflowers]

Unfortunately, my experiences with those who train service dogs have been overwhelmingly negative as well. So far I have found them to be elitist, snobby and full of the "you are trying to do the impossible" attitude. So you see there's two sides of the coin.

 

Anyway I'd like to hear more on that because I can't afford a program dog nor can I afford training so I do my best. I also work as hard as those in the programs training Jin only I don't know what the pitfalls are and program trainers seem to be loath to share the information so I have to educate myself including the what to teach Jin, his physical training and studying the ADA and SD law (do you teach that to your students?) I have yet to meet another individually-trained SD and really would like to know your experience.

Jin has a game he plays when bringing the ball back. He won't put it in my hand but teases me with it until he's ready top release it. He knows what I want. My warning: Watch out Liz is training you.

 

I can appreciate both sides. I wish trainers wouldn't have an attitude about it, but at the same time, I know how easy it is to get frustrated when you run into poorly trained "SDs" everywhere. People tend to stretch their reasons too simply because they want the dog with them. I'm not at all implying anyone on this board does that. But people will claim they have anxiety so badly that they need a dog with them, but it's self-diagnosed and their high level of social skills leave doubts. It makes people who truly have crippling anxiety and phobias have a more difficult time "justifying" their dogs.

 

Anyway. Ending that soapbox...

 

The reason they claim self-training is "trying to do the impossible" is because of the extraordinarily high level of failure within an SD program. Most schools have an intense breeding program. We breed to enhance certain traits and dull others. We breed for exceptional physical stamina and health. Then we have an intense puppy raiser program with regular training and guidance and exposure. Then the dog gets trained for a few months in every scenario we can think of.

 

And even after stacking the odds in our favor, a dog can be disqualified for service work for any number of reasons. Health, inherent genetic temperament, some environmental factor that went wrong along the way, etc etc. You might be surprised how few dogs actually make it.

 

So in the opinion of most program trainers, the chances of an individual selecting just the right dog and giving them the proper level of exposures and training, while they themselves have a disability of some sort, is very low.

 

We do teach our students about access rights and the law, as well as what to do if they are denied. We also call the ADA if we need clarifications for specific situations.

 

I hope Jin works out well for you. I guess the cautionary part I hope you get out of this is that not all dogs are cut out for service work. Know when to say enough is enough if he needs to be just a pet.

 

Also, I'm not sure about other schools, because there is a large and varied network of them.... but for what it's worth, we provide dogs to our students at no cost and survive purely on donations.

[ejano]

There are two schools of though on that pro and con. Some PWDs with SDs will scream about how it's demeaning to produce ID of any kind and are against the registration of SDs and the others who take the opposite view. This is something that eventually will have to be decided in the courts. In the meantime I remain against ID cards, and registration until it has some validity under the law.

Unfortunately, my experiences with those who train service dogs have been overwhelmingly negative as well. So far I have found them to be elitist, snobby and full of the "you are trying to do the impossible" attitude. So you see there's two sides of the coin.

 

Anyway I'd like to hear more on that because I can't afford a program dog nor can I afford training so I do my best. I also work as hard as those in the programs training Jin only I don't know what the pitfalls are and program trainers seem to be loath to share the information so I have to educate myself including the what to teach Jin, his physical training and studying the ADA and SD law (do you teach that to your students?) I have yet to meet another individually-trained SD and really would like to know your experience.

Jin has a game he plays when bringing the ball back. He won't put it in my hand but teases me with it until he's ready top release it. He knows what I want. My warning: Watch out Liz is training you.

 

Liz would just ignore him until he's ready to drop it like a good dog . Robin does a few laps around the yard with the soccer ball then comes back when he's ready to have it tossed again. It's just a game so there's no pressure on him to barrel right back to me. Ladybug teases like Jin does....her part of the game is she wants to see how far Ken will move from his chair. The less he moves, the closer she gets and pretty soon its on his lap. While he's working at his desk, she'll pick it up and toss it around like a little kid waiting for someone to play baseball with him, then she'll drop it in the wastebasket. He'll automatically reach down and give it a toss...so she gets want she wants. Amazingly it took him about a week to figure out she was doing this on purpose .

 

 

Back to service dogs, a woman at our church is trying to train a beautiful lab to help her husband who is mostly in a wheelchair...he does move around some with two canes. It's not working at all because the dog's loyalty and obedience is to her, not him and as they obviously live in the the same house, the person who really needed the help isn't getting it.

 

Liz

[desertranger]

I can appreciate both sides. I wish trainers wouldn't have an attitude about it, but at the same time, I know how easy it is to get frustrated when you run into poorly trained "SDs" everywhere. People tend to stretch their reasons too simply because they want the dog with them. I'm not at all implying anyone on this board does that. But people will claim they have anxiety so badly that they need a dog with them, but it's self-diagnosed and their high level of social skills leave doubts. It makes people who truly have crippling anxiety and phobias have a more difficult time "justifying" their dogs.

 

Anyway. Ending that soapbox...

 

This is what I run into here more and more. I call them Designer SDs others call them hugger dogs and these people have no idea what an SD really is.

 

Insert several paragraphs on hugger dogs with quotes, link and research.

 

[/soap]

 

Fortunately I have mentors to help me with this in addition to knowing when to call it quits with Jin as an SD. If he can pass and perform to the ADI PAT standard and perform the tasks I wish I'll be satisfied. It seems easier to teach him to help with the laundry and turn lights on and off than is the PAT.

 

The lady in your church may not have the right dog. That's all I can say on that. Training Jin to be an SD is not easy. However he is a BC and all the BCs I've ever had learned their jobs. This is different and it can be very frustrating on one side but incredibly rewarding on the other when Jin has learned something extremely valuable like "Breaking the Spell". That is itself is worth the effort.

[Ooky]

I think another difference between individually trained SD and program-trained guide dogs for the blind is the level and amount of daily tasks they are being asked to perform, and how this affects the final relationship between person and dog. I tutored blind students in college, and I have to say they do NOT treat the dogs the way someone who raised and trained a dog themselves would. They don't treat the dogs badly at all ime, either, but the job the dog needs to do for them is so important and so constant to get them through their day (we were on a busy university campus) that the dog is in no way a pet. My students did not treat their dogs as pets, they treated them as tools, very useful, necessary tools, particularly when the dogs were working. I don't see how anyone who raised the dog from a puppy and loved it as a pet would be able to train AND handle to that standard.

 

I think the guide dogs (only knew 2, btw) were very fulfilled and happy to do their jobs, but they didn't get a lot of doggie attention from their partners during the course of a day, either. And I'm not sure they CAN if they are to be able to continue to do their jobs at a high level, working for people who are not themselves high-level dog trainers. To try and explain what I mean, one girl I tutored used a special room where there was a computer for the blind. We used this for me to give her tests, handouts, computer labs, etc. Even though she was blind, she could sense light/dark and light was very painful for her, so we usually kept the lights off. When we came in the room every week she would tell her dog the equivalent of "that'll do" and take off the dog's vest. Then, and only then, I was allowed to pet her, which I would because I was fascinated and in love with the dog. The dog would just practically lay in my lap in the dark for 1.5 hours each week and soak up the petting and "pet-level" attention. The blind girl told me this was within the rules of how she was allowed to treat the dog, but later I was not so sure. I would see them across a busy quad later that semester and the dog would see me, then pause, and then try to turn and guide the girl to come to me. This is not what the guide dog is supposed to do! So I would ignore them and basically try to get the heck out of there, leaving the girl to correct the dog (by reasserting where she wanted to go). When the dog was working, I was supposed to ignore its very existence, which seemed harder for the dog to understand the longer the semester went on. This girl was always very kind to the dog, but it was clear she NEEDED it (and needed it to perform pretty perfectly) to get around and live her life, and would not just choose to have a pet dog for companionship.

 

Guide dogs are certainly not robots or little people but they almost have to be to do their jobs well. And the relationship seems to need to be very businesslike unless the blind person is an accomplished enough dog trainer themselves that they can compensate for and control any temporary relaxations of the rules under THEIR terms only.

[ShoresDog]

That was a very useful and interesting post, Oooky.

[ejano]

T

 

The lady in your church may not have the right dog. That's all I can say on that. Training Jin to be an SD is not easy. However he is a BC and all the BCs I've ever had learned their jobs. This is different and it can be very frustrating on one side but incredibly rewarding on the other when Jin has learned something extremely valuable like "Breaking the Spell". That is itself is worth the effort.

 

 

The dog is doing fine, learning a great deal. He just won't transfer his work ethic to the husband because the wife is the one spending all of the time training him. Plus, the husband knows the dog likes her better, so he's a little frustrated. If he were to go to another home and the person were trained to work with him, he'd probably do very well.

[MaggieDog]

I'm all for owner trained assistance dogs, but it does take a very special person to do it right. My first exposure to OT service animals was through the OC-Assist-Dogs list and the likes of Debi Davis - the people who do hold their dogs to high standards, wash when needed, etc. They do amazing things with their working partners and do it right!

 

Once I started training pet dogs myself it became quite obvious that many of the people who called me wanting help to train their pets as SDs were not at this level - I've had several run ins with people who just don't get it when it comes to what is required of a SD and I can't help them see it, so I decline to help them train their pet as an SD. The most difficult was the woman whose dog predicted her seizures by having seizures of her own - she was taken everywhere as a SD but not trained at all and I had serious doubts about the wellbeing of that dog. I discussed my concerns but it fell on deaf ears unfortunately. She now has a new dog and has asked for my help but I've told her I can help with obedience but will likely refer out to another trainer for SD stuff. It's a really sucky situation to be in.

 

I do think that the flexible nature of the current laws is being taken advantage of more than ever. I fully admit that I have considered pushing the boundaries myself because I would love to be able to work my dogs to the level SDs are worked (you really can't replicate the distractions and challenges of an airport, a shopping mall, etc. in a pet-friendly setting), but I do not have a disability and ethically I cannot cross that line, despite knowing that my pet dogs are often better behaved than some of the self-proclaimed SDs I see. I hate being ethical sometimes , but in the end my being able to control my desires in this realm makes me even less tolerant of those who take advantage of the laws to gain access with their untrained companions. I hate that people are ok with breaking the law and in the process making things so much more difficult for those with legitimate needs. Does that make any sense at all???

[desertranger]

Ooky's comment is worth remembring. It also brings thw question of what percentage of SDs are also treated as pets. I know that i nthe case of psych dogs the SDs are pets as well. That kind of tosses the ADA statement "they (SDs) are not pets" out the window since psych dogs are a combination of both. It also partially answer several other questions.

 

Erin you make perfect sense to me except for one thing. There's no reason you can't train or work your dogs at the level an SD does. That's only training. The only thing you can't do is take advantage of their training in an SD situation i.e going where dogs are normally not allowed. Still you can travel with them to places that take dogs which is what we do anyway. The point of having an SD is not so you can take him every where but so you can have the advantage of their assistance when needed. Even if Jin never makes it as a on the level of a program service dog he will still be able to do the things I need or want.

 

According to my family, friends and doctors Jin has had a tremendously positive effect on my life and everything is for the better. Training Jin to the level of an SD to be an SD is necessary to my well being. So sayeth the medicos.

 

Now it is time to walk the dam (an engineering project to hold water) dogs.

[MaggieDog]

DR - I can train to high levels, sure, but around here there are very few places that allow dogs, so finding challenging training scenarios is very difficult. I'm basically limited to sidewalk work, Petsmart/Petco, TSC, Lowes, and Home Depot. Dogs aren't allowed at street fairs or similar events and certain public parks, baseball fields, etc. and the local businesses aren't pet friendly. I can drive 30 miles to a slightly more friendly city, but it's nothing like any of the big cities on the West Coast I've visited (Portland, OR and SanFran, CA).

 

The "taking dogs everywhere" idea is what draws so many people into breaking the rules, not the task training unfortunately. If it were the training we wouldn't have the problems we do.

[martySQ]

........ Ladybug teases like Jin does....her part of the game is she wants to see how far Ken will move from his chair. The less he moves, the closer she gets and pretty soon its on his lap. While he's working at his desk, she'll pick it up and toss it around like a little kid waiting for someone to play baseball with him, then she'll drop it in the wastebasket. He'll automatically reach down and give it a toss...so she gets want she wants. Amazingly it took him about a week to figure out she was doing this on purpose ..........

 

Liz

 

So funny, she has started to put the ball on the printer some too, mostly because I react more quickly since it annoys me...and If I don't get it, she picks it up and drops i, again, and again, and I am worried it will break the printer...so she has me hostage if she gets around me with it, and hostage to be sure she doesn't make it there! LOL I think I have been out witted by my dog!

BTW.. she was putting the ball in my hand some again this evening. Oh, and she dropped it into the toilet once on purpose 2 days ago...we were looking for it, since we couldn't find it, she did, didn't bring it to me, just plopped the thing into the water! I really wonder what they think sometimes!

[desertranger]

DR - I can train to high levels, sure, but around here there are very few places that allow dogs, so finding challenging training scenarios is very difficult. I'm basically limited to sidewalk work, Petsmart/Petco, TSC, Lowes, and Home Depot. Dogs aren't allowed at street fairs or similar events and certain public parks, baseball fields, etc. and the local businesses aren't pet friendly. I can drive 30 miles to a slightly more friendly city, but it's nothing like any of the big cities on the West Coast I've visited (Portland, OR and SanFran, CA).

 

The "taking dogs everywhere" idea is what draws so many people into breaking the rules, not the task training unfortunately. If it were the training we wouldn't have the problems we do.

 

Oh my, what kind of a place do you live in if you can't take your dog out in public. I do have to say of the cities in th ecoachella Valley that Palm Springs is deliberately dog friendly. It's even part of the tourist advertising. Other cities les so and one city Rancho Mirage is almost totally anti-dog. I have problems there even with Jin in a service vest.

 

I will say I visited Charlotte N/ Carolina once for 10 days and while it is a very pretty place it's too green.

 

So funny, she has started to put the ball on the printer some too, mostly because I react more quickly since it annoys me...and If I don't get it, she picks it up and drops i, again, and again, and I am worried it will break the printer...so she has me hostage if she gets around me with it, and hostage to be sure she doesn't make it there! LOL I think I have been out witted by my dog!

BTW.. she was putting the ball in my hand some again this evening. Oh, and she dropped it into the toilet once on purpose 2 days ago...we were looking for it, since we couldn't find it, she did, didn't bring it to me, just plopped the thing into the water! I really wonder what they think sometimes!

 

Unless it's a big heavy ball your printer is fine. The case can take quite a beating.

 

You wonder what they think sometimes?

 

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