Breaking Cows

[NRhodes]

Nicole,

 

HERE is the original video. I am not sure why the other link is broken.

 

Jodi

 

Well I watched the video. Apparently the link was changed because he re uploaded the video with a clip added to the end showing the now dog broke cattle being brought into the pen by the dog that the man who owned the cattle bought. Now, I guess I'm going to be the odd person out and say that I don't see where this video is being so terrible as some are making it out to be. Mr. Knight specifically says he picked out clips more showing the cattle fighting the dogs, but no where in any of the clips do I see the dogs biting the cattle when the cattle are not attacking the dogs. When the cattle turn Mr. Knight lays the dogs down and lets the cattle drift away (he even explains this in the video), the same thing that Sue is praising Mr. Dalton for doing in the second clip that Jodi posted.

 

According to Mr. Knight in the video he sold a young dog to the man who owned those cattle, he drove to that man's farm to deliver the dog and to dog break the cows and calves, he had two days in which to get it done. Those cows had all ages of calves on them, from new born to near weaning, to some dry cows. He even says that a pen like that is not the most ideal place but it was the best option that he had as the pastures were extremely hilly and full of trees and brush. They split the cows from the calves and sorted them into smaller groups that would be able to move around that pen and be able to have enough distance to get away from the dogs. I don't know about you, but I've experienced moving non dog broke cows and calves out of brush and it is no fun whatsoever and much much harder to convince the cattle to move out of. After seeing the end clip that shows the gentleman's pastures I will agree that the pen was probably better.

 

No where did I see the cattle ever being run, the cows are not breathing hard, they're not all frothed up. The dogs are biting when the cattle try to fight them, when the cattle are moving the dogs are laying on the ground.

 

HERE is another interesting video with a completely different method.

 

Other than the dog wearing what I think is an e-collar, he seems pretty sensible. Looking for nice, quiet work, calmness, and not abusing the stock. That dog has a drop-down "down" and seems pretty relaxed. I'm not sure if I would like to have a long line on a dog in a small pen like this with cattle that aren't dog broke unless you have a good handle on the dog, though.

 

I don't understand why the pen is "lined" with dogs tied up. Other than getting those dogs hyped up, I can't see a purpose in that. I guess he could have his own reason.

 

The two handler/trainers that talked to me about dog-breaking cattle did it simply (and not very differently from this) - walk the dog up gently, lie him down when the cattle start to turn away, let them walk off, and down the dog. Go to the other end, repeat. Teach the cattle that when they move off the dog, they are rewarded by the dog taking off the pressure by lying down.

 

So much better an approach than that first video! JMO.

 

This second clip is from Len Dalton in LA and does NOT show him dog breaking cattle. The cattle in that clip are his dog broke training calves, the clip is one that he made for the rancher who bought that dog (a really nice young dog I might add, I got to see him in person as a puppy just getting started). He is explaining to the rancher, a person who has never used dogs and has no clue how to handle a dog, the easiest way to get started with his new dog that will allow him to stay in control and move his undogged cattle around- hence the rope.

 

Here is a video clip of Mr. Dalton dog breaking some momma cows and calves. http://youtu.be/uDM_ngKW6dw This video clip is a short snippet of a DVD that he sells. I own the DVD, in it he shows those cows and calves being brought into pens and then separated into smaller groups and dog broke. It looks extremely similar to Mr. Knight's video

 

Yes Mr. Dalton uses electric collars. He's a man in his 80s who can't move around very quickly, I have never seen him move out of a slow walk. He starts all his dogs on ropes in that small pen he shows in the video posted, he makes every dog move at his pace (very slow). Lots of downs, take three steps, down, take three steps, etc. He introduces the electric collar after the dog is well started on cattle and knows it's basic commands, he just uses it to reinforce things at a distance. It's an extremely methodical/mechanical training method and is definitely not for everyone. If you browse through his videos he shows you everything from started dogs, to training the outrun, driving, etc. If you look back you can find Nick's (the dog in the clip posted) early videos also, from start to finish.

 

About the young dogs tied to the pen- Mr. Dalton specifically does that to get those pups hyped up. Now for a normal border collie this generally isn't a good thing, but his dogs aren't normal border collies. They have 1/4 to 1/8th bulldog in them and are generally very laid back creatures. He explains in various videos and on his website daltonscowdogs.com why he likes and breeds crossbreds. The dogs are really quite nice as a whole.

 

Sorry for the novel.

[Chris K]

Chris Knight here, from ‘Knight Family border collies’ clip on youtube. I was recently made away of the comments on this forum and read each carefully. For the comments expressing concern about the process on the video, I fully understand and appreciate most of the thoughts. It’s odd, but your concern for the BC breed is the source of your criticism, but my concern for the BC breed is the very reason I do what I do. I humbly ask you hear me out before you permanently determine what folder to file me away in. There are some sound observations in the comments, as well as some I found confusing in light of the audio dialogue and written explanation accompanying the video. Regardless, I sought to respectfully reply. I was most thankful to read one comment, which demonstrated the writer, whom I had never met, carefully considered the video, audio and the writing. If you did not see the second version of video demonstrating outcome where these cows and calves are being moved quietly by one young dog and new owner, please do.

 

After you consider what I offer, be assured I will genuinely take to heart, and earnestly consider any informed constructive criticism you wish to offer. I’m NOTt too old a dog to learn new tricks. Also, please know I am not only open, but solicit anyone’s suggestion of a better way. I myself have suggestions if I can call on ALL of you out there to be available to help anyone close to you that is converting their cow-calf operation to dogs. Cattle can be started with less conflict and danger to all, if able to work over a 2-3 week period regularly in small fields and a bit larger pens, with a place for dogs to escape on all sides of pen. We spent an extra ½ a day of my time out of town helping, and required the man spent another $500 on corral panels, to construct a breaking pen that close to 2/3rds of it the dogs could escape. Now don’t be offended, but some dogs do not want to escape. I’m not God, I don’t make dogs so don’t hold me on that one. We did our best to reserve the conflicts to areas where, if cattle slam the dogs, the dog could be pushed out under the panels, but at times didn’t work out that way. But we have helped folks with less suitable pens and me in the pen as well. We do the best we can on the breaking area, pray and move ahead to help the farmer make his farm a good and safe home for our young dog. But if all us BC folks agreed to help those close to us, this method could normally be avoided. There would of course remain considerable unavoidable conflict, especially with cow/calves, and when rank cows show themselves, but certainly less. We need a national volunteer program in place to help beginners break their stock when converting to stock dogs. I have a farm to run, a family to feed, and having lost the wife of my youth Aug 2010, still have 2 home school children that need me home. We run a 100-acre farm using mostly horses. Our formally big family crew is now down to 3 of us, so I have limited time to help folks start their livestock. I do not charge for breaking the livestock when we sell a dog, just food and gas. Pen breaking is the only method I know efficient enough with the time I have allowed, to get the job done. I also require the buyer agrees in advance to cull any cow I identify, or I will not leave my dog.

 

For the record this is the first time I have ever-broke cattle I was not in the pen with the dogs. A while back I was breaking a herd of Brangus cattle a few hours from home and an attorney who is a student of mine lived in the area and came to observe. 100 momma cows (70 calves on ground), was a tough job which required rotating 6 dogs, 3 pairs of 2. After observing the process, my attorney friend asked if I had a will. I replied no and he promptly made me one at no charge. In the cattle-breaking clip, I just got off crutches from torn up knee. I was also behind helping several folks start their herds because of my wife’s extended illness, so I purposed to take care to not re-injure my knee. Yet in the field the BAD tan cow in video came for me, followed me into the gator and I got out other side and we played ring around the Gator. I discovered I had a high-speed limp gear I had not discovered until that day.

 

Respectfully spoken, I would venture to say not one of you is more committed to the Border collie breed than my family and I. Some seemed to miss the clip is LABLED “RANK cattle”, and point to clips of well-dogged cows like Daltons referenced clip.

We start out just like one comment suggested moving cattle while dog on ground, keeping dog completely out of way. If you can do this for a couple weeks fine in different pens/fields fine, and it will reduce the amount of conflict that will come once you step out of the picture and leave the moving to the dogs; but I have a couple days and so far NO ONE has offered to come take over when I leave so I have to finish the job.

 

Whichever comment said these were cows pushed into fighting should have been there. In fact next time, you can have the gas money and donate your time and go help the folks out and show us how its done.{One-benefit years have added to my life, is I learn much faster…, so my eyes will be wide open.} As stated the clips shown were some of the rankest of 100 cows, the ones that would just come for the dog. They had their own version of the fight/flight zone concept, and it didn’t include anything about the flight part. I mentioned one came after me and I assure you I wasn’t biting them or even thinking about it. I was well off the cattle just limping along. Such cows I normally require the owner cull, but you have to identify them first. Odd, but sometimes the toughest will often break and be fine after developing a working relationship and submit to the dog bossing them. There are many comments referring to clips like Dalton as an example of how to do it, but note he STRESSES he is using totally dog broke stock. We made it clear our clips were not the cows that broke nicely and quietly. Regardless, unless you saw the second version of the video showing the man working the cows we broke with his one young dog, you should watch the finished process with a calf under 24 hrs old on one of the rank cows in clip.

 

As for the comment how sad it was that folks would say I want a ‘dawg” like that. Why Not have a dog like that? A chief ancestor of our dogs, was our Farmer Brown dog, who was under two when he ran in the nursery nationals, open sheep and cattle nationals. If he would have been a few days younger he could have ran nursery the next yr too. He was running open before a yr old. He also broke bison and almost most breeds of cattle. He was keen to work anything all his life. You might not want a dog like that, but Alistar McRae’s mentor from Scotland, who also bred and raised Alistair’s Nan, wanted him. He asked for a pup out of Farmer too. I regret never getting it to Mr. Bremer, though my son spent months with him in Scotland. In the video did you not see the same dogs breaking the rank cows, quietly moving the sheep and goats with lambs and kids with a 13 yr old handler? Perhaps you could explain to me the downside of a dog that will work sheep and goats properly but will also stand to rank cattle when needed. They don’t eat any more food, I assure you. As for the comment “could not make it past 45 seconds.” That’s is truly just fine, but I suggest to withhold commenting until one knows the whole story. An old saying in a book lying around a lot of folks home reads “ he who answers a matter before he hears it, is not wise”. Giving a full hearing before posting a judgment might be more just.

 

The comments about folks seeing cattle working nicely and quietly… see the end of our video. Also goats and cattle born into well-dogged herds naturally do this and learn as they grow up. Isn’t it very nice? But what about the farmers/ranchers wanting to do this and their cattle have never been dogged, or were around weak dogs and spoiled? He wants what you saw, how does he do it? Our video demonstrates the only way we have found with the time and resources we have. This man can now do what you saw with the Canada cattle or wherever. Should I feel bad about that? I get fabulous emails and calls from the new owners rejoicings and sharing their awesome stories their wonderful ‘dawgs’ are doing for them now. Lets consider the man and dog on the video in question. Mr. Reece called a few weeks ago. Copper has now learned to go out and sort the goats from the cows and bring them in to the shed (without hurting any), then on her own go back out and get the cows and calves put them in the pen where they go. After 2 weeks he never had to close a gate again when moving round bales, Copper keeps the cows in.

 

Anyway, back to the new comers wanting to convert their operations to Border collies. It is next to impossible for an inexperienced handler, with one young dog, to break a beef cow-calf herd without jeopardizing his investment, the dog and spoiling the cattle. I refuse to put my dogs at risk for money is why we do not charge. At least in my mind, if my dog, or me gets hurt it was not to put cash in my pocket, but to help a fellow farmer reap the joys of having a Border collie to help him do his work safely. I have sold dogs to two people who previously had cows get them down and injure them. Of course they both culled these cows, but neither knew such was in the cow until it happened. I know of several people who will tell you of their dogs protecting them from a bad cow. I am one such person. We have sold dogs to folks who run far more cattle than we can start. After the base group is started, they gradually blend the unbroken in with the broke and it stays quite enough. One good dog can normally handle it without damaging the young dogs confidence. This solidifies the buyer’s investment, good dogs are not cheap, and unfortunately bad and weak are not cheap either. My own eyes have seen sheep chase a Border collie completely off the trial field. But boy did that dog look good up until that happened! Anyone would have thought…I need to bred to that dog.

 

If my dogs, or me get hurt propagating their breed, and making them a valuable asset on cattle farms, in my mind I feel it noble cause. I sleep well with this. But I am most troubled by with what is going on in many cases. That is; some out there taking unknowing newcomers good money selling them half trained Border collies as a "trained dog" capable of working their undogged beef cattle. I feel, if it is a newcomer to border collies, and we are going to sell them a cattle dog for undogged cattle; if we can’t help them, OR see they get help, then don’t sell the dog. That is not helping…that’s just taking their money. In my mind it doesn’t fit real well with that ‘do unto others…’stuff.

 

Maybe someone that’s an activist or organizer could spearhead a national network of folks with Border collies/other cattle dogs that would volunteer to help new comers (who live close to them) get their cows started. Even if there was a small fee. This would help make it possible for the breaking process to be done slower, safer over an extended period of time, allowing multiple trips by someone close by with experience and dog power. Of course conflict is unavoidable converting cattle to accept being bossed by a dog, but this way it cold be minimized. Instead of meeting somewhere to compete for the cheerleaders and magazine listings, meet somewhere to help a fellow American farmer make a home for this noble breed of stock/cattle dogs.

 

 

We have helped a fair amount of folks and dogs find each other and have useful purpose working together. It is especially satisfying to help the older farmers that have no one to help anymore. Our generation baled out on them, leaving them to pay the school bills and watch the young folks “find themselves ”. Placing a canine farmhand, who becomes their best friend and servant with the work, including cattle just makes me feel good. It’s also satisfying when I hear all the comments from folks saying Border collies are not tough enough for cattle; and since arguing is seldom fruitful I just think to myself…well, some are. Then there is the BC camp that says you have to have one dog for cattle and one for sheep. I just think to myself, maybe… you do. America, a place where we can each can have our way.

 

I must confess it does make me a little sad to be scorned by the rescue camp, especially because I appreciate them so much. Seems they perceive only their efforts to help the well being of the breed. Developing the breed into one that will do more that move flighty sheep, agility or chase Frisbees (which is fine by me-one pup we sold became the Atlanta Frisbee champion)) but having BC’s that will also bring the cows home leads to creating an amazing number of new meaningful homes for the breed. As more cattle are raised in dogged herds, more will be sold from dogged herds and much less breaking will result. Lots of cows in the good ole US of A. I do not know of any in rescue who have given more time, money, energy or put their self in danger as we have to be a part of creating a demand for the NBCA (New Border Collie of America). Just a joke, I’m a ABCA diehard fan. America had a history of making things better, why not the Border collie. We can open up unlimited homes where the dogs and all stockmen can truly appreciate each other as they do what they were both born to do…work stock, even the rank ones.

 

Regardless, let all know, that no personal offence was taken on my part by any comment. I realize everything said was out of concern for the well being of the dogs and cattle. Since God judges by the motive of our heart, we should do the same, so your concerns endure me to you. I am not asking you agree with me, or change your view about the breaking video, but hope you will try to see my motives and realize what you saw are the most heated parts of the battle. That said, such was the purpose behind putting up the video, and still is. We want to proclaim to the world, the Border collie can be great dog for all your stock, including cattle. If the livestock can be worked, the BC can do it.

 

Last but by far most important, is placing the credit where it belongs, to a wonderful and kind Creator for making good stuff and watching over us dumbos as we stumble around on earth. Before starting a herd, we (buyers and I) pray asking God for mercy and protection for the dogs, cows and ourselves as we seek to work toward useful purpose for the creatures He placed under our domain. I believe this is why we can say after over 20 yrs working the dogs, breaking cattle has resulted in one mild concussion, and some minor temporary canine limps. I did have a dog break a leg while gathering dog broke sheep from a field he knew well? Still don’t know how and I was right there. I also know of someone else’s dog getting a very serious injury at sheep trial in a hole/gully. Clearly, breaking undogged beef cow-calf herds is far more dangerous than sheep, so I give Glory to God for protecting our dogs, us and the cattle. He knows our motive breaking cattle is NOT to be “cowboying” as one comment made. Just the opposite is true. I have trained horses much of my life and hardly ever had one buck. Also trained working drafts too. I am a slow and easy guy to anything I train, when such is possible. But I’m also, ‘a get the job done guy’ when it has to be done and no one else to pass it to. My offer to the owner of the cowboy comment is; I will more than happily step aside and let them work the next herd until the owner can gather and pen the herd with his one young dog, and they can use any method they chooses, I will not criticize. I’m still trying to do last years work anyway and I can easily find some work on my farm with the extra time.

 

My intent is purely in accordance with how we understand some ancient but timeless words that advise "to consider the needs of others above that of your own". We feel this includes someone needs who wants to begin using dogs with their livestock the way they see you or I do it. If we don’t help…who will?

 

Lots of folks are selling dogs for more money than I do and don’t break the cattle. I don’t have to either. I choose to. Not for ribbons or glory, in fact until recently most of you did not even know we even existed. And becoming aware of me didn’t get me much glory has it, as I well knew. No, not after ribbons, prize money or listing in the magazines, I done that too, it was fun! No, this is just for purpose. I got cows banging up my dogs, chasing me around tress, thru gators, over fences and one time one sent my 18 yr old son up a tree and began backing up and butting the tree to knock him out. This is true, 3 of us watched it. And why… I don’t make one penny profit for breaking… so why? So the new owner can work his cattle without begging around for help. So he can send his dog out and here come the cows. Then he brags to all his buddies Border collies is the best thing ever happened to his operation.

 

I do regret so many of you were offended at what we do. But if I don’t sleep well tonight, it won’t be over helping cattle farmers make good homes for good dogs.

 

So in closing, better ideas are welcome, but better still…if you want the job…you got it, and the gas money. Do it my way or yours…just do it.

 

Sincerely from a fellow Border collie fan,

 

Chris knight and family

[Katariina]

Chris,

 

I wasn't able to view the video clip mentioned here in the beginning, but finally later on I looked at it. After viewing it, I noticed I have used the same method on the rank cattle than you're using, but I'm able to do it in the open(since I'm only working my cattle and occasionally my neighbour's cattle), so I don't have to train the cattle in corralls. I tell my dogs to get down a lot and let the cow decide to nicely move on or if she wants a "fight" she'll get it, but like you said, it takes at least two dogs to work on the rank cattle and teach them to respect the dogs. It's all about the pressure and the right moment to release the pressure, teaches the dogs to rate the cows real well, too.

 

I've been very pleased with my young heifers and the way I have trained them to get used to the dogs from the beginning, but the older cattle took some tougher training. After my husband got killed few years ago in airplane crash, I decided to get new bulls and get rid of all the bulls he had, and some of those couldn't be handled very well. A few ended up in front of my .30-06, since I didn't want anyone to get hurt...especially after one of them sent me flying in the air like a ragdoll. This spring one of the nasty cows with newborn calf took after me, my horse and my dog, the result was to have a crippled horse for a couple of weeks, since we were not fast enought to get out of the way of the horns. She'll end up in a chute this fall to get a bit duller horns at least. Actually this cow wasn't the only one charging us, but the only one to actually hook my horse with horns. However, this was also the first spring that the cattle seemed to have fairly good respect towards the dogs.

 

I totally agree with you, that breaking the rank cattle to dogs isn't easy and usually people who don't have the experience working with the "wild" cattle might not understand, what it is all about.

Anyhow, I'd say that your video is a great example showing that border collies are tough enough to work cattle.

 

Kat

[Sue R]

Chris - Thank you for your comments. It is always worthwhile to get both points of view.

[Howdyjabo]

nice post(albeit a little windy)Chris.

When I first saw the video - it struck me that that's not the way I would do it. Wild stuff makes me nervous- as I have been on the receiving end way too much.

But I read that you had a time limit to get it done and get gone- with those parameters I thought your dogs did a fine job .Then I saw the end videos of the dogs working quiet and I had no reservations at all and would be thrilled to own a dog like yours.

 

 

I like your -put up or shut up- attitude. I know what you are getting yourself and your dogs into breaking cows fast(and selling dogs to farmers) and I personally will not take you up on that. But I respect you for doing it and I know that you aren't doing it for personal benefit. I know several people that break cows for people who buy their dogs, it always a money loosing proposition. But they like the challenge and the idea of getting someone else going using dogs.

 

I doubt "put up or shut up" will get you very far with the proliferation of politically correct people into Border Collies that have no clue about the realities of farming/ranching.

IMO- What you(and others like you) are doing has a bigger impact on the Breeds true success than all the trials put together.

So just ignore the nay sayers and keep selling your dogs to farmers and breaking their cows.

[Tea]

I still can't see these videos. Maybe it is my computer?

[Chris K]

Kat,Howdyjabo and Sue,

 

THANK-YOU for the politeness of taking time to read my mini book reply about our video. {a "little windy" is massive understatement, and a very kind description. "Wild stuff makes me nervous" too! I appreciate both your knowledgeable comments and sharing your personal experience. Weaning is good time to dog break your replacements. If you work heifers steady for two weeks when weaning,and include pen work with them too, they are broke for life. You can gather them as adults with calves on them if you keep the dogs back. they remember those early lessons.

 

Sue, I love the cleverly disguised as an adult thing. Maybe if I shave that will work for me.

 

 

I hope those who commented get notice and see my post, and understand i am not trying to draw a line between us and them to set up different camps, just hope they will see my heart in the matter. Thankfully it appears you have. The breed needs us all, but we must each endeavor to try to see through one an others eyes.

 

Kat...you better be careful, and my two cents is get rid of the cow while getting rid of the horns. beef or sale barn, maybe her calf too since they pass it along. If you cull aggressive behavior, it will practically disappear from the herd in time. Though caution is always in order with new calves on ground and maternal instincts in tact. I'm preaching to the choir, you probably forgot more than I've learned.

 

Anyway, if your husband is gone and you have children (young or grown) your a major family tie! First time I met Greg Acland at the nationals(the Aussie-eye specialist & a great guy) I said "you sure have a strong accent, where are you from. He replied;"it's just like the pot to call the kettle black, where are you from".

 

SO, the pot to the kettle, Kat be careful. I had 2200 lb bull hit me and my horse broadside and threw us 6-8 ft, but my horse landed on his feet...stumbled around and I hung on. No horns and No injury, but a big scare. Two of my dogs were working bull out of the pond, he could stand but the dogs were swimming. He would plow one under and the other would be swimming and biting. the bull would turn for that one and the other would pop up and attack. I don't think they could hear me because they had excellent recalls, but they were in it to the end and would NOT come off. SO I started in with horse to draw the bull after me; it worked and faster than I expected! Smart, NO, but the dogs would do/have done so for me.

Stupid of me, yeah! But a blind neighbor had his wife divorce him so had to sell the farm and all the stock. They had caught and hauled all but 5 renegade cows and the bull. No one could get close enough to tranquilize the bull. He asked me to help and I did, though I normally do not gather wild cattle, just help break them. Anyway, we did get everything but the bull, which also butted up another mans truck pretty bad. After we worked the bull they got close enough to tranquilize and get in trailer. He woke up later and tore out 9 stalls at the stock barn. He was promptly, and rightly culled from planet earth.

 

You've likely figured out brevity is not my strong point. Don't worry, too much living going round here to write often. But since this is a forum maybe some helpful info between the lines.

 

Take care and you all keep in touch. jckmusic@nctc.com.

 

Your new KY friend.

 

chris k

[Tweed]

Kat,Howdyjabo and Sue,

 

THANK-YOU for the politeness of taking time to read my mini book reply about our video. {a "little windy" is massive understatement, and a very kind description. "Wild stuff makes me nervous" too! I appreciate both your knowledgeable comments and sharing your personal experience. Weaning is good time to dog break your replacements. If you work heifers steady for two weeks when weaning,and include pen work with them too, they are broke for life. You can gather them as adults with calves on them if you keep the dogs back. they remember those early lessons.

 

Sue, I love the cleverly disguised as an adult thing. Maybe if I shave that will work for me.

 

 

I hope those who commented get notice and see my post, and understand i am not trying to draw a line between us and them to set up different camps, just hope they will see my heart in the matter. Thankfully it appears you have. The breed needs us all, but we must each endeavor to try to see through one an others eyes.

 

Kat...you better be careful, and my two cents is get rid of the cow while getting rid of the horns. beef or sale barn, maybe her calf too since they pass it along. If you cull aggressive behavior, it will practically disappear from the herd in time. Though caution is always in order with new calves on ground and maternal instincts in tact. I'm preaching to the choir, you probably forgot more than I've learned.

 

Anyway, if your husband is gone and you have children (young or grown) your a major family tie! First time I met Greg Acland at the nationals(the Aussie-eye specialist & a great guy) I said "you sure have a strong accent, where are you from. He replied;"it's just like the pot to call the kettle black, where are you from".

 

SO, the pot to the kettle, Kat be careful. I had 2200 lb bull hit me and my horse broadside and threw us 6-8 ft, but my horse landed on his feet...stumbled around and I hung on. No horns and No injury, but a big scare. Two of my dogs were working bull out of the pond, he could stand but the dogs were swimming. He would plow one under and the other would be swimming and biting. the bull would turn for that one and the other would pop up and attack. I don't think they could hear me because they had excellent recalls, but they were in it to the end and would NOT come off. SO I started in with horse to draw the bull after me; it worked and faster than I expected! Smart, NO, but the dogs would do/have done so for me.

Stupid of me, yeah! But a blind neighbor had his wife divorce him so had to sell the farm and all the stock. They had caught and hauled all but 5 renegade cows and the bull. No one could get close enough to tranquilize the bull. He asked me to help and I did, though I normally do not gather wild cattle, just help break them. Anyway, we did get everything but the bull, which also butted up another mans truck pretty bad. After we worked the bull they got close enough to tranquilize and get in trailer. He woke up later and tore out 9 stalls at the stock barn. He was promptly, and rightly culled from planet earth.

 

You've likely figured out brevity is not my strong point. Don't worry, too much living going round here to write often. But since this is a forum maybe some helpful info between the lines.

 

Take care and you all keep in touch. jckmusic@nctc.com.

 

Your new KY friend.

 

chris k

[Tweed]

I completely agree with all the positive feedback toward the videos and Chris Knights info on dog breaking cattle and the use of quality tough dogs to do the job. I have Farmer Brown Bred Dogs In Canada and find them to be well rounded for all types of livestock. Some of the toughest cattle included. Hats off.

DFrew