Jump to content
BC Boards

Do you call jumps?


Recommended Posts

I was at agility class last night with my baby-dog, Ollie. The woman instructing the class (not our usual instructor) pointed out that I wasn't calling all the jumps. OK, with a baby-dog, I could see how that might be helpful. But, then (and she's my friend, so this is not meant as a slam to her) she proceeded to tell me how border collies are different, and they need to a lot of verbal direction because they are herding breeds, and yada, yada, yada. First off, Ollie is not a border collie, but he probably does have some sort of herding breed in him. Secondly, she runs GRs, and to my knowledge, has never run a border collie. But, I digress. So, I told her that I almost never call jumps with my seasoned dog, Charlie, who is a border collie, and her response was that I probably should have been calling them all along, because Charlie would be a better agility dog, or something to that effect. I told her that I literally would not be able to call every jump, because I get tongue-tied. I'm lucky if I call a contact obstacle by it's correct name, or manage to eek out any word before my dog is already on it.

 

When I'm handling Charlie around a course, I am mainly just giving directional commands, and calling contacts and tunnels. Charlie handles like a dream. Handling is not an issue for him, as long as I'm doing my job well. His issues are more with blown contacts, occasional dropped bars (also, often my fault), and terrible start line stay. In fact, I used to call spread jumps "big" because I was told long ago that saying "big" lets the dog know that it's not a single jump. But, I noticed that when I would say "big" Charlie would often knock a bar. Perhaps it's just my timing (saying "big" isn't really helpful, if he's already in the air). But, I stopped calling those jumps, too, and it doesn't seem to affect his ability to distinguish the jump as a spread jump.

 

But, mainly, I was just curious about others, especially others who are running border collies. Do you call jumps? Do you call every jump, or just some jumps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm. I admit I am a chatterer out on the course. I have been told many times to shut up, that the more I talk, the less he is likely to hear me when I really need him to. So, I have tried the last year or so to knock it off, but I know I still tell him "over" at times when I don't need to. Getting better, though! Oh, and even at my worst, I never called *every* jump.

 

The handlers I admire the most, and yes, they run border collies, are very quiet and don't call jumps. I strive to be more like them and less like me, so I'd say they're on the right track. :lol: This is my long winded way of saying I don't agree with your friend/instructor. I don't think herding breeds need any sort of extra verbal direction. That really doesn't even make sense to me...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think herding breeds need any sort of extra verbal direction. That really doesn't even make sense to me...

 

I concur.

 

Sometimes I run Dean and Tessa on purpose in class without any verbals except a release or "weave" if I think it is helpful to use the verbal on the weaves.

 

They tend to do better when I am quiet.

 

Like Paula, I do chatter a lot, though. It helps me keep track of where I'm going, so it's a give and take. If we are charging down a straight line and I have set a good line, I may well say nothing, or only call out the name of whatever is at the end of the line. But there really isn't much rhyme or reason to it.

 

FWIW, I frequently call out the wrong name for pieces of equipment and it doesn't phase the dog or send him/her off course, even Dean who will do the wrong Rally exercise if I say the wrong word in tha context!!

 

One time I ran Maddie calling all of the pieces of equipment by names of food "Pepperoni Pizza! Chicken!" just to amuse her, and she ran the course perfectly.

 

I haven't seen that Border Collies necessarily need every jump called as a "Border Collie thing" at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, to the herding breeds are verbal thing ... um, ok.

 

With Wick, I have a very sophisticated system where I say nothing unless I don't want her to take something, in which case I screech some sort of alarm call reminiscent of a peacock serenading a pea hen. It works better than you'd think.

 

With Rex, I *do* call each obstacle, including jumps, even if they're right in front of him. The reason, according to Linda M (whose APHS I allegedly follow, though I'm sure she'd be horrified to see my interpretation of it) is that if I say "hup" when I want him to take the jump, then maybe he'll figure out if I don't say "hup", then he shouldn't take the jump. IOW, what can it hurt? The exception is if there's a straight line of jumps to a non-turning obstacle (ex. three jumps to a tunnel), I'll just call tunnel. This is covered in the excellent tomb, "Developing Handling Skills", available at Clean Run.

 

And I've never called spreads anything different - they're all "hup". Chutes and tunnels are both "in", though some would say our chute execution could use some work. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think whether or not you need to call the jump would depend on your dog. If you have a high-drive dog like mine, quiet running is best. If I'm quiet I can easily get her attention if she's in danger of an off course jump. I have had 3 different instructors tell me to shut up on the course! If you have a dog that needs more encouragement, then cueing each jump might help motivate them. Now I run silently except for the contact obstacles and release.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, to the herding breeds are verbal thing ... um, ok.

 

I know. It's funny to me how people who know nothing about the breed or herding, or their knowledge comes from very flawed sources, are the ones who always want to tell me about border collies. But, trying to point out the flaws of their supposition is usually a pointless exercise. But, yeah, I was secretly rolling my eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, to the herding breeds are verbal thing ... um, ok.

 

Having had quite a range of different types of dog myself and seen many hundreds of dogs of all shapes and sizes pass through our club I would agree that, on the whole BCs do seem to be more responsive to verbal communication than most breeds.

That doesn't mean that they need more verbal direction, just that many respond to it well when it is given. Then again, many also respond very well to body language when that is given.

 

It's all relative and you have to have knowledge of and experience of working with other types of dog to be able to make a comparison.

 

But to say that you need to call every jump - absolutely not, and to suggest that you do with any dog greatly underestimates them. At the outset for a very short time maybe, but that's all, and I don't personally know anyone who isn't a beginner who does it.

 

Point your dog in the right direction and it should take anything in front of it until told otherwise either by body language or verbal cue. The fewer cues you need to give the better - much less chance of being off with timing.

 

My daughter is very vocal around the course with her BC, mainly because he isn't great in the concentration department, but she has never had to tell him to take a jump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was thinking about my ring talk and about the only commands you'll ever hear from me are:

 

Break

Come, or come around

Get out (the only time I might add "jump")

Turn

Here

Go on

Weave

Tunnel

Table

A-frame

Dogwalk

Teeter

and, of course, CHARLIE!

We are trying to add "push" to our repitoire, which I'm using to send him to the back of the jump. In that case, I do also say jump, but I think that is mostly because he doesn't 100% get what "push" means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Wick, I have a very sophisticated system where I say nothing unless I don't want her to take something, in which case I screech some sort of alarm call reminiscent of a peacock serenading a pea hen. It works better than you'd think.

 

That is hilarious :) I think you should patent that move; "Tonight we will be learning 'THE WICK'" I too have been known to make random screeching noises, now I know what to call it :)

 

I tend not to say very many obstacle words. I save my breath for breathing, directionals, weaves, distance, discriminations and contacts.

 

I do have this tendency to apoligize to Boots on course, he is a very quiet runner, but if I give a directional late or have to call him off of something he barks once or twice, at which point I apoligize outloud "Sorry Bootsie" and we continue on. The sad thing is he is always right, nothing like being called out by your dog, bad handler.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never call jumps and have run numerous BCs. That's how I train and how I run. There's no reason to call every jump. In fact, I've found BCs to need very little direction, hell they don't even need me out there.

 

I did a Wick screech at AAC Nationals one year and that got us into the SC Finals. :lol: It only works with Wicks. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't give a verbal for jumps, I don't even have a word for them.

 

I would take it a step further & say that not only do I not command every jump verbally, I don't even signal every jump, even for my young dogs. I tend to work handling points on a course/sequence & take whatever obstacles are in between as expected.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last time I tried calling a jump it didn't respond, It just stood there, looking like a jump.

 

Lol!

 

Meg is slow and sometimes distracted in agility so if she's moving in the general direction of the jump I will say 'over' when I'm trying to get her attention on the task at hand. I get tongue tied enough as it though so if I don't have to tell her to jump, I don't.

 

I really don't think she listens to me much when we're on a course anyhow. If I say the right thing, but am pointed at the wrong thing, she'll do the wrong thing. She's more of a body reader, which I think is why she runs so slow...she's trying to stick close so she can see me. We've been working on verbal cues more at home...I try not to give her any body language and just say 'tire' or 'weave' and wait for her to do it. Its going well and we're improving our distance at home too...not in class yet though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our class t-shirts this year say "Shut Up And MOVE" on them, which probably tells you all you need to know about how much we are supposed to speak on course :) I basically only call contacts and tunnels/weaves, and do not speak about jumps at all. I think it would be incredibly tiring to have to call every single freaking obstacle. I would have no left breath left to run!

 

The bad habit I do have is saying my dogs' names in place of any kind of command whatsoever ... in a variety of wheedling, threatening and panicked intonations. The end result of this nasty habit is that sometimes they just flip me the paw when I say their name to get their attention. But oddly enough, they mostly seem to understand which version of their name means what, and frequently do what my brain wanted to them to do, even though my mouth just said their name and nothing else.

 

RDM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not speaking the obstacles out loud but i have a bad tendency to think loudly in my head the obstacles. Fortunately Cressa generally gets what i want but sometimes my thoughts gets scrambled for her to decipher.

 

Troy normally needs the obstacles more interesting and verbal helps him stay in the game. Yelling each obstacles out though would never work for me since teeter/tire/tunnel/table are all interchangeable for me.

 

Given i have only trained two border collies i would guess they were more body sensitive then verbal. Verbal is more of an attention grabber. I prefer running quiet then rabbling on the course and our performance does way better when i shut up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bad habit I do have is saying my dogs' names in place of any kind of command whatsoever ... in a variety of wheedling, threatening and panicked intonations. The end result of this nasty habit is that sometimes they just flip me the paw when I say their name to get their attention. But oddly enough, they mostly seem to understand which version of their name means what, and frequently do what my brain wanted to them to do, even though my mouth just said their name and nothing else.

 

Although my daughter is very verbal on course with her BC, she runs our little mongrel for the most part on name only as you describe. I'm probably to blame for that as I trained and used to run her.

 

Both dogs are Grade 7 which is our top grade - proof that you should go with what works for each dog, not what other people expect you to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...