Interdog aggression with destabilized pack

[Sasha's Mom]

Hi guys,

 

As most of you know, I had to put my old GSD down earlier this month. His CCD was causing significant stress in the house, but now that he's gone, I may have an even bigger problem on my hands. Hence another long post. Sorry.

 

Here's the short version:

Zoe is 6. Sasha is 10. And Zoe has attacked Sasha twice this week. Sasha never seemed to be interested in pack hierarchy while Nik was around, but she certainly didn't take the other days' assault lying down. Basically, my cleaning ladies rang the doorbell, both dogs ran over, and in an instant, Zoe was on top of Sasha.

 

We managed to get them apart after a few minutes, but not after a few puncture wounds each. I was shocked as I hadn't seen them fight in nearly a year. (And there was a foster that provoked that fight. Foster gone, no more fighting.)

 

I gradually and carefully reintroduced, and they seemed fine.

 

Fast forward to today. We went for a short run (just 1.5 miles, which isn't far for them), and coming back in, Zoe goes for the water first. Sasha usually waits until she's done - they've had this routine over several thousand running miles. Today, I missed the provocation hanging up the leashes, but they were back fighting, Zoe on top, Sasha fighting back nose to nose. It took a fire extinguisher to break them apart.

 

After quick rinses (and keeping them apart), Zoe has been intermittently crated and Sasha has been isolated in the bedroom.

 

I called my vet and got a referral to one of the two vet behaviorists in the state. (I can't believe there are only 2 in this whole huge state, but whatever.) After a lengthy talk, I got an appointment for next week, as I feel like the whole situation is deteriorating. I really don't feel like I missed a warning look or growl or stink-eye... just BAM they were on top of each other, and neither looks like she's going to defer. We've had rare fights in the past, but never 2 big ones in this short a time. Also, the one day I took Zoe over to introduce her to boyfriend's standard poodle about 2 months ago, Zoe grabbed her snout and shook it in a very scary episode of what I presume was resource guarding of me, as I went to pet his dog after they'd played together and spent an hour or two hanging out together. Needless to say, we haven't tried to reintroduce, but that weighs on me too.)

 

I know that the upheaval in our lives is a huge part of this. (We moved 6 months ago, I took a promotion and have been working a ton, and I'm seriously seeing someone now, not to mention Nik's passing.) I spent several hours filling out the behaviorist's paperwork and feel so guilty...

 

I've kept the girls apart tonight (either crated or in the bedroom), but am not quite sure how I'm going to make it through a week like this. Sasha is actively looking for Zoe, and Zoe just looks absolutely lost. I'm trying to spend time with them individually at this point, which just feels so weird, and I know that they can feel my stress about this.

 

I am mostly just shocked at this - Zoe gracefully coordinated the fostering of dozens of foster dogs over the last 6 years - in fact, she was referred to as my "cruise director" - play bowing and initiating play with the fosters, and she singlepawedly pulled two very unsocialised brother fosters out of their shells allowing them to be adopted. This is just such a radical change... (and yes, she's had bloodwork recently, after her TBD spell.) When she's just with me, she's just a doll. But then without much warning, BAM.

 

Any advise would be gratefully appreciated.

We see the behaviorist on the 1st.

 

Danielle, Zoe, Sasha, and 2 cats who can't figure out what the hell is going on.

[Root Beer]

My first step would probably be a visit to the vet. I would strongly suspect that something may be off physically if there were a sudden behavior change such as this.

 

Although she may seem perfectly fine, something could be off chemically with thyroid or something.

 

If the behaviorist you are seeing is a vet behaviorist, then a thorough round of physical tests will probably be part of the evaluation, but if that is not the case, I would definitely talk to my vet about getting some testing done.

 

ETA: I just re-read and see that the behaviorist you are seeing is a vet. So, until then I would keep them separated and deal with it as best I could.

[urge to herd]

I had inter-bitch aggression with Samantha and Shoshone. It is very hard to deal with, emotionally and physically.

 

The behaviorist we went to told us very clearly we were to provide more structure for both dogs, but particularly Shoshone. This meant her learning to stay on her mat, teaching tricks/games for human interaction, and learning her triggers. Those were Sam going to close to Shonie, unexpected loud noises, and a few other things. The increased structure helped a lot.

 

After we had Buzz put to sleep, (bone cancer) the situation got better. There were less stressors on DH and me, and more time for everyone.

 

It seems that you're doing the right things for Sasha and Zoe. AND, as you explained, there have been some major upheavals in your life. Consider doing some things for yourself that help you be calm and centered. That can help as well.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[Sasha's Mom]

Thanks guys.

 

We just came in from a tiring game of fetch, so Zoe is calmly relaxing in her corner in the bathroom.

 

Sasha acts like nothing is wrong. We are all calm and back to baseline this morning, but I'm going to be watching them like a hawk.

 

Structure is probably right on target, so any more advice in that regard (especially in that it's just me, and my work schedule is like throwing darts at a calendar) would be great. Thanks.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Structure is good, routine is good, rules are good. I'd put some training on the younger dog which would enhance your bond, improve your dog reading skills and give her something to think about besides pecking order. While I don't think it matters much what you train, "what" has to matter enough to you so you'll keep on with it and, generally, training wih others is more fun and reinforcing than training alone.

 

I'd suggest an obedience class, an agility class, scent training - whatever is easiest and closest. Don't worry what "school" the trainer preaches. Ford/Chevy/Nissan all get you to the grocery store.

 

Donald McCaig

[urge to herd]

Yes, I'm familiar with the "I don't have anything scheduled for today WHOOPS, now I do" and vice versa. It keeps things exciting.

 

So, structure for Shoshone meant that she learned to stay on her mat unless asked to come to the couch or the door, etc. That was pretty easy, as the mat was where she liked to hang out, anyway. We simply didn't let her move off the mat unless invited. And of course that meant that we couldn't ignore the dogs. We had to be sure that both dogs got out to potty regularly, for on thing. No more leaving the door open and letting them come and go as they pleased.

 

I did a fair amount of trick training with Shonie, and she loved, loved, loved Nosework! Especially as everyone got older, Nosework became a go-to, easy way to focus the dogs and give them a good outlet.

 

We also needed to put Sam on the same sort of thing. That was a bit harder, because Sammie was such a sweetie. But, she needed to stay out Shonie's way, so she learned a mat command as well.

 

They each had their own spot in the car and that didn't vary. Food bowls were separated so that they couldn't see each other when they ate. Treats were doled out with a human between the two dogs. I swear Shonie could count!

 

If I think of more, I'll let you know. We've been a single dog family since Shonie passed in 2011, so it's not automatic to think in those terms any more.

 

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[Sasha's Mom]

The vet behaviorist visit was fascinating indeed. It was a 2 hour long session, and I really liked her. I brought both dogs so we could watch them interact, and she basically confirmed my suspicions, and agreed that the upheaval has really been hard on Zoe, who feels like she should be the captain of the ship, but isn't sure enough of herself to do it well. That, and she has basically no impulse control. We got a lot of things to work on, mostly involving calming signals and reassurrance, and she put Zoe on Prozac, and a couple of herbal supplements for anxiety and impulsive behavior.

 

Anyone familiar with treiball? It's something else she thought might be something to explore.

 

What was almost more fascinating, was watching Sasha react to Zoe and try to calm her down. It's been awhile since I read the calming signals book, but am rereading it, as well as The Other End of the Leash. Sasha does seem to defer now, and she suggested that Sasha was probably just fed up with Zoe's anxiety. (Which has really magnified as Nik got sick, now that I reflect on it.)

 

It's going to be an interesting road. We have a followup email scheduled for 2 weeks. The milk protein calming supplement Lactium should be here in a couple days, and I'm going to try to keep her tired.

 

 

So far, gradually better. But it's going to be awhile before we're back to normal. Whatever the new normal is...

[Root Beer]

I'm glad it was a productive session. It does sound incredibly interesting.

 

I am vaguely familiar with Treibball. It looks like a lot of fun, but it isn't really mainstream around here yet. But there are lots and lots of Youtube videos that can help you get started.