First time BC owner, some advice would be great

[wal2]

Hi All,

 

Mae (14 weeks today) is the first BC I have owned, previous dogs were Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and I have some questions. It's been a while since I have dealt with a puppy so some of my questions are probably just general so apologies in advance.

 

Obedience/Training

 

We have had Mae since 8.5 weeks and I think she's doing well but feel I may have slightly unrealistic expectations.

 

She knows sit, down, paw, side (she rolls over onto her side), give, pretty sure she knows fetch and come/recall. Some days she's on the ball, some days pretty meh. I guess this is par for the course given her age? I would like her to be more consistent so question 1 is how much training should I be doing per day/number of times per day with a BC? Its probably dog specific, they all have their own characters after all. At what age should I expect her to become consistent? FYI I do throw some training in on walks, asking her to sit, down, recall etc so there are distractions.

 

Exercise

 

Mae will walk and walk and walk if you let her. We tend to walk both off and on lead for an hour in the morning before I go to work and then she either get's another hour later or spends an hour playing with some other local puppies, the general running/fighting/rolling all over each other kind a stuff. On the weekend we tend to go for a ramble through the woods and we are out for about 1.5hrs once and then a smaller run/walk in a local field later.

 

I don't force her or do it at my pace, if she want's to stop and sniff then that's fine with me...it's her walk.

 

Too much?

 

I've seen the 5 mins for every month rule but I really can't see that working out.

 

Settling down on a night

 

Come bed time she's great, pop her in her crate at 10:30 and she's out until 5am...no complaining and no accidents.

 

She won't settle in the front room when we are relaxing earlier in the evening. I've started to pop her in a crate in the front room with a chew of some sorts so she can be with us...she complains a bit but only for 30 secs or so and nothing excessive, just a grumble. She then usually falls asleep. Is this the right thing to do?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[Sue R]

Welcome! This is a great place for advice and sharing experiences with your Border Collie. There are many people who are much more knowledgeable than I am here, and I am sure some will answer your questions better than I can, but I'll give my input.

 

Mae is, after all, still a youngster and you can't expect a great deal of consistency yet. We were always taught the three Ds - distance, duration, distraction. It takes time and maturity for a youngster to learn to deal with all of these and any of them should be approached with little baby steps, increasing as the pup is ready and making sure the pup is set up for success by not expecting too much.

 

That said, all the time is "learning time" but "training time" should be in small increments, a few minutes here and there, throughout the day. You can do plenty of short training sessions (only a few reps or a couple of minutes) just about as many times as you'd like in the day. A lot of what the pup learns is not in structured training but also in just learning to be mannerly and living with you in "real world" situations at home and elsewhere.

 

The general rule for puppy exercise is that it is repetitious, impact exercise that is harmful but the pup being a pup (playing on its own or with other pups/dogs) is good within reasonable limits. A pup will let you know when she's getting tired but she probably won't want to admit it! I would limit the walks and allow as much exploration as possible (think "strolling") and, like training, making more but shorter walks the norm.

 

These dogs (and pups) can have the ability to go until they are ready to drop, and you want to end the exercise well before that happens! Avoid things like fetch, frisbee, jumping for objects, etc., until after her structure has finished growing - after at least a year, and more safely, 15-18 months. Let her set the pace, within reason.

 

Evenings with a young Border Collie? Most people experience the "zoomies" and, as with a young child that is approaching bedtime and tiring after the day, it can be a time of mayhem. Your crating her with a chew toy is a good idea as it teaches her that there are times to be quiet and content, and just chill out. I loved the evening zoomies with my pups but some pups do get pretty wild as they fight the need for sleep, and teaching an alternate behavior is a good idea if that's what suits you.

 

It seems to be a fact of life with a pup (or a child) that when you want to relax after a long day, they are ready for energetic expression!

 

Best wishes!

[juliepoudrier]

Welcome to you and Mae! Sue gives good advice. At this age, I try to keep all learning fun. No need for drill seargeants! Many short sessions are best, and she can and will learn just in general by being with you and learning what you expect of her (no jumping up, no rushing the door, etc., whatever you want in a mannerly dog).

 

It's great that she has puppy play time as well. That's good exercise and socialization for her.

 

My biggest advice is to not to buy in too much to the "border collies are brilliant" thing. They are pretty darn smart, but that can work as easily against as it can for you (the whole "learning all the time" thing). Even as smart as they are, babies are babies and I prefer to let them enjoy their puppyhood as much as I can while still getting the necessary training in. With that in mind, fun games that also teach her things are a good way to keep it interesting for her. Most often, people who start to have trouble are those who are drilling their pups (or dogs) and not ever giving them breaks or making it fun. Think about how a 5 or 6 year old child learns and interacts with you. They soak things up like sponges but have short attention spans and want to go from one thing to another. Train with that in mind and you'll both be happy!

 

J.

[wal2]

Thanks for the advice so far, all sound. I think I had got it into my mind that 'BC's are brilliant' and so must be learning all the time/mentally stimulated all the time...I'll keep things simple and slow and not get too worked up, I'm just as bad with the kids to be fair. I certainly want her to have fun.

 

I was surprised that 'Fetch' came up as one of things perhaps not to do, we have been playing fetch with her and she tends to follow some of the older dogs when they are fetching the various things thrown by their owners. I'm pretty amazed just how fast she can run at 14 weeks but then she is scrawny and all legs

[Sue R]

The issue with activities like fetch is that there is a lot of stress placed on growing bones, joints, muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc., and it can leave the pup vulnerable to serious soundness issues due to injury or stress in the growth phase of life.

 

Let your pup be a pup - playing with you, walking, playing with other pups, socializing, having chew toys, etc., but don't place emphasis on athletic endeavors that are not "natural". Fetch and similar games involve a great deal of repetitive and impactful motion, unlike normal play.

 

Some of us can fall into the trap that since the dogs are "high-energy", that they need constant, intense, or lengthy exercise/activity. As a friend once said to me when I was using longer walks to "tire out" my pup - "You're just making him stronger and needing more and more to tire him!" She was right. Plus then you create a dog that expects and is "programmed" to want/need all that activity.

 

Being reasonable is the key. Mental stimulation can be more tiring than physical activity, and less stressful on the body. Your pup being smart works for you and against you - it means the pup can learn a lot, for better or for worse! So that's why remembering that all day, every day, whatever you both are doing or not doing, it is all learning time for the pup (versus training time) if you get my drift.

 

I have three dogs. Each had a few minutes of training/fun time with me. We went for a walk this morning. They were active around the house a while. They are all asleep, one under the desk at my feet, and two by the woodstove as it cools from my burning some stuff this morning. Sure, they are mature adults (two are verging on seniorhood) but they are all active, lean, lively animals - but they've learned that my desk time is down time for them because they've been learning to live with me since they came into my family. When they were pups, they required more interaction during the day, just like a baby, with intervals of training, playing, resting, etc.

 

You'll get it all figured out. You've made a good start and you want to learn.

[Maxi]

hi to you & Mae,

 

I agree with the others (almost) - let your pup be a pup..make everything as fun as possible and don't expect too much at a young age as Julie says' over-drilled' pups may rebel at a later age.

 

The only 2 things I personally am really concerned about actively teaching my pup when young is a recall (but I make this as fun as possible and I'm certainly not expecting this to be perfect until they are much, much older) and 'drop it' (but I only use that when she picks up something foul when out & about - & this is definitely a personal hangover from many years ago when several neighbourhood dogs were killed by someone illegally putting out poisoned bait).

 

But. different from what Sue describes, I have always taken mine from a very young age for walks with my older dogs - the length of these are very much geared to the pup's ability - by 14 weeks, mine will do 1-1.5 miles amble off lead (... thats me ambling, them playing together, running, sniffing etc) over flattish fields every morning. Not surprisingly I find the pup wants to crash out after this for several hours. If I'm going out, I put her in a crate. If I'm pottering around the house she can sleep where she choses -she currently likes an open box I use for waste pape that sits by my desk.

 

Also different, Although I do crate my pup overnight, I don't when she is over-tired in the evenings - I just ignore her while she is being manic (apart from replacing the inevitable boot with one of her toys!). I find that after she has had her 'mad-puppy' moment, she choses to settle herself. My current pup is now just 5 months and now most evenings, the mad moments are less frequent and she automatically decides that she would rather spend her evenings lying calmly by my side or at my feet.

 

But everyone is different and as Sue says, you'll find what works well for both you & your pup.

[juliepoudrier]

Personally I think long, ambling walks are fine. In the heat of summer, we will take frequent stops because puppies tend to get hot more easily. That's much different than going for a jog or a "forced" walk at the pace of the human. If the pup is moving in fits and starts and stopping to sniff, play, whatever, then it's unlikely one will do damage. I am fortunate that I have always had fields and woods around which we could amble, with everyone off leash and moving at whatever pace suited them. For some this even means running ahead and then lying down waiting for me to catch up (perhaps while staring at a mole tunnel and hoping I'll give permission to dig). But none of that is particularly high impact or repetitive. What we are cautioning against is putting pup on a leash and then taking it out in the neighborhood for, say, a 2-mile walk where the pup has to maintain a particular pace the entire (or most of the) time, also while walking on a hard surface like concrete or asphalt. There are folks who have posted here about taking young dogs jogging with them, and again this is the sort of thing we caution against because the dog is being required to keep a particular pace over a period of time or distance. Again, much more repetitive and high impact than a nice, rambling walk out in nature....

 

J.

[Alchemist]

My vet agreed that a long, ambling walk over a relatively level natural surface was fine for a pup - just don't force the pace, and nothing where it might go over the side of a cliff (pups don't always have much sense). Follow the pup's signals and give it a chance to rest when it's tired and catch a drink of water or dabble in a stream when it's hot.

 

I don't do "fetch" (be it frisbees or balls) with pups, only a roller or two - mainly "catch" instead. Or put a pup in a down stay, toss a ball, and then release the pup when the ball has stopped. This makes for a less manic 'fetch' and helps with impulse control.

[Sue R]

And maybe I was unclear - which is nothing new! Yes, I do longer "ambling" walks with my pups. If a pup got tired along the way, when they were smaller, I'd carry them a while. A common walk (with pup) could be up to about a mile or so but letting the pup set a lot of the pace. It might be along the road and neighbors' driveway up to their barn, or in our own pastures and hayfields.

 

But it would not be the kind of walk I now do with my dogs, a solid steady working pace that gets us all tired out, which is what I foolishly tended to want to do with a pup in an effort to "tire him out". It was too much for a young pup (I'm talking 2-3 months old as a "young pup") but fine for a part-grown pup/youngster.

 

Strolling is an example of a "natural" activity that is fine for a pup as long as it, like anything else, is not overdone. Thanks to all for their comments clarifying this!

[Sue R]

And I do work on manners/obedience from day one (at 7-8 weeks of age, or whatever age that pup comes into the household) - particularly the recall and also the "leave it", along with sits, downs, and whatever the pup is physically and mentally able to absorb.

[GentleLake]

Not much I can add to the excellent advice you've already gotten, except maybe for one thing.

 

From the time a dog or puppy sets foot in my home, I gently, quietly praise for any sort of quiet behavior.

 

Pup comes in from a long walk or play session and conks out on the floor? Gently stokes and "good boy (or girl)". You don't want to get them all riled up again, thus the quiet praise, but you do want to reward the kids of behaviors you'll appreciate when they grow up and can't always be the center of attention.

 

I've always thought that this crucial element of reinforcing quiet time often gets overlooked in the early stages of puppy (and new adult dog) training, and then people end up trying to figure out how to put an off switch on their dogs.

[Maralynn]

I will second the need to teach quiet time. My pup is now 5.5 m/o and will relax in his crate, on his back in my lap, on his side on the floor or in my arms. It's REALLY nice and I expect this early relaxation training/conditioning will pay off in spades throughout his life.

[Maxi]

Not much I can add to the excellent advice you've already gotten, except maybe for one thing.

 

From the time a dog or puppy sets foot in my home, I gently, quietly praise for any sort of quiet behavior.

 

Pup comes in from a long walk or play session and conks out on the floor? Gently stokes and "good boy (or girl)". You don't want to get them all riled up again, thus the quiet praise, but you do want to reward the kids of behaviors you'll appreciate when they grow up and can't always be the center of attention.

 

I've always thought that this crucial element of reinforcing quiet time often gets overlooked in the early stages of puppy (and new adult dog) training, and then people end up trying to figure out how to put an off switch on their dogs.

^^^this^^^ , completely agree.

[wal2]

Cheers Guys...all good advice much appreciated

 

Good point on reinforcing quiet time.....I'll have to work on the human puppies I own to leave Mae alone, it's quiet time all round guys!

[Maxi]

Cheers Guys...all good advice much appreciated

 

Good point on reinforcing quiet time.....I'll have to work on the human puppies I own to leave Mae alone, it's quiet time all round guys!

Pups and older dogs definitely need down time and be left alone to sleep.... but they also need to be rewarded for being calm.. Like GentleLake and others, when my pup is calm, I sit by her and gently stroke the side of her face and body. Some people consider that this form of touch mimics a mother dog's nurturing licks and so is a very powerful reward that tells the pup that calmness is a good thing.

All my dogs love this touch more than any other kind of treat. It's very therapeutic for all of us. I think it's one of the reasons why my dogs choose to settle quietly beside me in the evening.

[juliepoudrier]

^^Yep, it's soothing for all parties involved. Dog therapy for the human, and human touch therapy for the dog.

 

J.

[Camden's Mom]

Cheers Guys...all good advice much appreciated

 

Good point on reinforcing quiet time.....I'll have to work on the human puppies I own to leave Mae alone, it's quiet time all round guys!

 

You really must make sure everyone is on board with puppy quiet time, otherwise Mae will quickly learn that when you say it's time to settle down she can just run off and find another family member to engage and play with.

 

To this day, even though my dog is over 2 years old, I will still inform my husband when I've given the dog his "last one" (a final throw of the ball) so hubby knows not to throw it again. My dog understands that when it's me and hubby "last one" means playtime is over... for real. This rule was quite a bit more flexible last week while we were hosting guests. The guests would not heed my "last one" and for that they got pestered for 7 days straight to throw a ball. The guests and the dog both loved it, I hated it... but what can you do. If everyone is not consistent these dogs will take advantage, lol.

 

This behavior might be cute to your family members while she's an adorable little puppy but it'll get old fast when she's an amped up adult dog who can't settle down or, worse yet, won't stop pestering them at all times.