Two World Collision

[B Point]

Hello fellow BC friends, it's been a while. I must tell you about our day yesterday. As of late, Juno my 18 month old (and I) have been doing well with our herding lessons. He will never be a trial dog but he is progressing each time he is on sheep. Yesterday at the farm he was around 10 or so other Collies from true working lines so of course all dogs and handlers were calm, cool and very focused, and Juno is doing well in that area, too.

 

Now the dilemma. Actually, Juno is a sports bred dog and could do VERY well in frisbee in the future. Yesterday there just happened to be the All Japan Frisbee Distance Finals in a field about 10 minutes from the farm so after the herding lessons I took Juno to check it out.

 

Well, in about 10 minutes we went from gum boots and walking sticks to pink spandex, AC/DC and full on huge camping vehicles and rows of glitzy vendor booths. Working BC's that were calm and focused to BC's bursting at the seams, pulling and yanking in every direction to get at their turn to perform.

 

I think even Juno looked at me with a "WTF??" expression. It was the perfect situation to illustrate how far apart the herding vs sports worlds are.

 

I honestly think Juno would do better in the latter, however my heart is in the former. I just assume doing both isn't really an option....is it??

[denice]

I think you do anything with your dog that you both enjoy. If you are doing herding as more of a hobby I would concentrate on that for a bit to get the basics and just throw the frisbee for him at home and see if you like it. It does not have to be wild and out of control for you both to enjoy it.

[Maja]

The same as Denice: see what you like and enjoy. And you can do both, particularly that you are treating herding as a hobby. If I couldn't work sheep, or wanted something in addition, my own choice would be tracking, since it also uses the dog's instincts in a way that has them do something that is beyond my own abilities and senses.

[airbear]

I honestly think Juno would do better in the latter, however my heart is in the former. I just assume doing both isn't really an option....is it??

 

I compete in both herding (Open level, USBCHA trials) and agility with my two dogs. They don't have any trouble adjusting from one to another. Sometimes, we do both on the same day. Your limitation really is time and money.

[Gideon's girl]

I was doing agility for about 2 years before I found out that I could find a stockwork instructor down here. Micah could definitely compete in both, but me, not so much. I wish I would have started stockwork first though. There are a few small things that I get him messed up and confused over because we learned the agility way first. So I have to agree, get a firm foundation in stockwork, then start the next thing you want to do. Border Collies can handle it. Micah knows that "Get back" has two different meanings depending on where we are. And some of the crazy flapping things I do with my wild arms also have multiple meanings. Both of my instructors wish they could get me over that though.

[rushdoggie]

Both of my instructors wish they could get me over that though.

 

Duct tape.

[rushdoggie]

FWIW, the frantic-ness you see in some people doing sports is not needed. Some people think that they can create "drive" by being that way. Most dogs don't need it, and even low drive dogs actually often wilt or get more stress with extensive "cheerleading."

 

I do some stockwork, I do sports. I don't do any of that. I also have expectations of calm, responsive and appropriate behavior when at home and out places. You can do both.

[Hooper2]

And some of the crazy flapping things I do with my wild arms also have multiple meanings. Both of my instructors wish they could get me over that though.

 

I don't do any agility but I flail my arms way to much. I was working with a dog who was very responsive to pressure at a clinic once and the instructor made me put my hands in my pocket. I had to communicate with voice and by stepping toward my dog, but no flapping things with my wild arms It was AWESOME. Taught me just how responsive my dog actually was, and taught me how overly dependent I was on waving my arms around. Not a good idea with a really novice dog who doesn't see the handler as part of the picture yet, but a great exercise for a handler with a dog who is ready for it.

[Gideon's girl]

Duct tape.

Pockets.

 

FWIW, the frantic-ness you see in some people doing sports is not needed. Some people think that they can create "drive" by being that way. Most dogs don't need it, and even low drive dogs actually often wilt or get more stress with extensive "cheerleading."

 

I do some stockwork, I do sports. I don't do any of that. I also have expectations of calm, responsive and appropriate behavior when at home and out places. You can do both.

Nothing frantic, just bad habit. I used to train all of my dogs and the K-9s to do everything based on hand signals, so I have a hand signal for everything and I use them without thinking. Neither instructor wants my dog to keep watching me instead of what they should be looking at. Very understandable, but it is a 42 year habit. Fortunately, Micah is capable of ignoring me to the right degree on stock, but that still doesn't stop me from using all those signals, unless I put my hands in my pockets.

[Cass C]

A quick comment on being frantic in dog sports. Lily loves agility, but I do some pre-run cheerleading and hyping to get her ready to run, but once our run starts all the frantic behavior stops and the run is very straightforward on my part. If I get crazy on the course she loses it and starts making her own course up while barking at me and recently nipping at me if she gets too over amped.

[CptJack]

Honestly? I don't cheer lead my agility dog, but I absolutely let some wild behavior slide in a sports setting that you wouldn't elsewhere. This basically amounts to loose leash walking going out the window and barking. She's mostly very good, but arriving at a trial or practice... yeah, she's ramped up and loud and, yeah, I let her be.

She's not a BC. She's not high drive. I don't CHEERLEAD her, but if she is happy anywhere... she barks. If I make her be quiet/ask for perfect obedience she gets a little sad. Given the environment and noise level anyway. Yep, I let it go.

it is not representative to her behavior elsewhere or, honestly, her behavior for most of the trial. She also never stops being responsive to me, even when being barky and bouncy.

But encounter her at the right moment she looks like a frantic, wild, nut. It'd be really easy to assume that's her all the time, but she's just... not.

[Root Beer]

I don't hype my dogs up before running them in Agility. I warm them up (physically). I try to hone their focus in and I make sure we're connected, but I don't hype them. I want my dogs to put their hearts and minds into what we are doing in the ring together, but I don't want hype.

 

And not all Frisbee events are super hyped. Maybe check for some smaller local events. You might find them to be lower key.