Looking for a reputable breeder, need help!

[desertcollie]

Hello all, I am new to this forum, but have been reading many posts after the last few months, in hopes to find a good breeder for a new dog, without much success.

 

First, a bit about me, I've owned 4 border collies in the past. My first was a family dog when I was 15. She was a fantastic bc, bred by working lines. She died at the ripe age of 16 a few years back. When I moved out on my own and had the time and land, I got two other border collies. Both wonderful dogs, however, being ignorant at the time, I got them from a bad AKC breeder. Oddly, one of those dogs was the most wonderful dog I ever met, I guess what some people call a "once in a life time dog". In the end though, they both had some health issues, that I can't help but think were possibly due to bad breeding. My 4th and current border collie is another wonderful little guy, but from an agility breeder (once again, not knowing better) and does have some quirks, that don't seem to be showing the best of what a border collie should be, despite how much I love him. He seems to have been bred to be fast, and that was about it.

 

This time around, I really want to do my best to find a good breeder, to add another dog into my family. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

 

My husband and I live in a very rural part of the SW. We have 75 acres and back up to national forest. It's safe to say we spend most of our lives outdoors, working our horses, exploring the forest by foot, hoof or ATV. Our dogs go everywhere, and do everything with us. We work at home, and our lives are dedicated to our animals and self sufficient type of lifestyle. We've dabbled in agility and herding as well. But first and foremost, our pets are our companions.

 

We've searched the internet high and low, and have not come up with much. I've not had any luck find stock dog trials near us (ones that haven't been canceled anyway) so I've instead contacted stock dog clubs, but so far have only got one reply back regarding good breeders.

 

It would really be nice to find a breeder close enough that we could go and meet the dogs/facility/etc. before comitting to buy. We are in New Mexico. From what I've found, there really isnt' anyone near us currently breeding. So we're willing to travel, but we have to be reasonable about how many times we can leave our farm and how much money we can spend on travel, etc. We're currently looking in the states of: NM, AZ, UT, NV, CA, OK, KS, TX, SD, WY, ID, NE, OR, WA.

 

Any suggestions, references, etc. would be so welcome. Thanks to all in advance!

[juliepoudrier]

Many of the states you list have excellent working breeders. Hopefully folks from those states will offer you some good suggestions.

 

J.

[rufftie]

you can keep your eye on www.handlerspost.com in the classifieds. people from all over the country and Canada post there. doesn't guarantee a great breeder, but it's a start.

[Laurae]

You didn't say you were looking in Colorado, but you mentioned all the states around it, so I will assume it was an oversight. On the Handler's Post, Ray Masse is advertising a nice litter. I encourage you to check it out.

[desertcollie]

Oops! Yes, I did mean to include Colorado. Thanks for catching me on that. My husband and I's only real preference has been a medium to rough coat. Nothing at all against smooth coats, but I guess it's just one of those things! Nonetheless, I'm going to check into Ray's pups. I'm trying to leave no stone unturned!

[stockdogranch]

You might also talk to Robin Nuffer in Idaho. She is at broken circle border collies; a google search should find her,

A

[desertcollie]

Thank you very much, I will contact Robin in Idaho.

 

One thing I'm seeming to find in common, is that the odds of finding a pup (good pup from a good breeder that is) in the winter time might by slim. Is that true? I want to keep my expectations realistic, knowing that I might have to wait a while before pups are actually available. Most sites I'm looking at, that seem decent on first glance, aren't expecting another litter till spring of next year.

 

Please keep recommendations coming! I'm going to contact everyone I can, in hopes of finding a suitable pup!

[stockdogranch]

Time of year really depends. For me, winter is a better time to have a litter of pups, as our primary trialling time is summer: NCA cattle Finals are early June, and the Wyoming series of trials is early August. So, breeding in the spring means that I wouldn't be in a position to travel then. But for others, it depends on their ranch or farming schedule and how much they may need the bitch who is to be bred for work.

A

[Gideon's girl]

Pups are available based on when bitches come in season after all. A lot of them seem to come in based on the time of year, but by no means all.

[desertcollie]

Good news! Winter is my slowest time around the property and with my work as well, so I'll keep my hopes up for finding a winter pup, but also keeping in mind that good things come to those that wait!

[desertcollie]

Any other breeders worth looking into? I was really hoping to find more than two people to contact.

[Maralynn]

Diane Deal/Orchard Run would be a good person to contact.

[red russel]

You have listed so many states with so many folks that will have litters on the ground at one point or another it just seems an issue of not getting connected in the right place. You probably want to hook up with a hand or two in the know about what is going on in each state. Folks here can offer individuals to connect with or, send me a PM, and I'll get you hooked up with folks in at least 9 or 10 of those states.

 

There is also a working dogs group on facebook that might be of value.

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/322067447939362/

 

Lots of available dogs and puppies available there.

 

dave

[desertcollie]

Maralynn, Thank you, I actually have already contact Diane Deal, I just have not received a reply yet.

 

Red Russel, Thank you for the Facebook link! I did just ask to be added to the group. Hopefully I can find some good leads there. I would be so grate for a PM with contacts to individuals in any state you have them for. E-mails would be best. I'm in a very rural area and do not have a land line or cell service available to me. I do have a cell phone, but must travel quite a ways to get cell service.

 

I would love to find a breeder close to home but am happy to travel if necessary! I guess the biggest problem I'm having, is finding a breeder that doesn't have more than 2 or 3 red flags, as found on the "Tips to Finding a Border Collie" on this site. I have found dozens upon dozens for breeders, all with pups for sale. But they all seem to either have too many pups, or pups always available, or many different colored pups and some pups don't even look healthy or really like border collies. From what I've read on this site, I should avoid these people. I want to take all of this advise to heart, and not just go get the first cute pup I see. Some folks I've contacted don't want to answer any of my questions about health, parents, etc. so I'm guessing I shouldn't continue talking with these people, and have quite communications with such people.

 

I have started communication with Robin Nuffer, and am a waiting another reply. However, since I am looking for a medium to rough coat, it's possible her upcoming litter might be smooth, so I want to continue talking with other folks.

 

Thanks again everyone! All help is much appreciated.

[Sue R]

Very glad to hear you are being cautious. You will be glad in the long run that you did so.

[desertcollie]

I do feel confident that being cautious will reward me in the end. I first fell in love with border collies when I was 15. My family got a female pup from a ranch in New Mexico. She was a fantastic dog, healthy, strong, happy and confident. After I moved out on my own, I got my own dog, from a show breeder. I named him Wiley. He is by and far the best dog I've ever owned or met. His intuition, eagerness to please, and sure joy each and everyday was infectious. However, knowing what I've learned these last few months, I got him from a very, very bad breeder. I wouldn't change a second of it if I had to do it all over again, since he was such an incredible dog. But, he had a handful of odd health problems as a pup. And...a few months ago, he was sitting by my side as I was outside doing chores, he let out a yelp, and fell. I rushed to him, and did all I could think to do, but he died, so, so quickly. My vet suggested a possible brain aneurism or heart attack. I will never know. We live a hour from anywhere, so my husband and I buried him that afternoon on our property. He had just recently been to the vet for his annual check up and shots. They said his weight was perfect and his heart was strong. Needless to say, we were heartbroken. I'll never know if it was from poor breeding, or just "one of those things" that happen. I thought I'd have so many more years with him. He was only 9.

 

Wiley was that special dog in my life, that taught me what it really means to be a good dog owner. I am forever in debt and gratitude to all he taught me. We got another border collie 5 years ago, Bandit, and used all that we learned with Wiley to teach and bring Bandit up right. We sure are looking forward to continuing the tradition and continuing to learn from these wonderful dogs. I want our new dog to come from a place that had the very best upbringing, and the very best chance for a wonderful, long life with us.

[sharatk]

Robin's next litter in late March- April, should not be all smooth. It should have a few roughs to medium (if not all?). Did you look at the parents?

[Andie182]

HsnskaZZX

[desertcollie]

I have looked at Mill Iron Ranch. However, I found a few things that worried me. I was first drawn to them because of seeing their dogs working. But, they sure do have a lot of litters...I was looking at their upcoming Shooter/Maddie litter, and looked at their pedigrees. If I'm reading it correctly, these two dogs share the same grandparents. Wouldn't they be inbred? Perhaps someone with much more knowledge on pedigrees could help me out to see if I'm reading something wrong. I also didn't see any info on them being checked for eyes or hips. Any one else out there have experience with the Mill Iron S dogs?

[desertcollie]

Robin's next litter in late March- April, should not be all smooth. It should have a few roughs to medium (if not all?). Did you look at the parents?

Yes, I did look at their parents! I sent Robin an e-mail with a handful of questions! I'm looking forward to hearing back from her.

[Andie182]

#bcjjls

[Journey]

If I'm reading it correctly, these two dogs share the same grandparents. Wouldn't they be inbred? Perhaps someone with much more knowledge on pedigrees could help me out to see if I'm reading something wrong.

It's inbreeding if it doesn't work and line bred if it does

[Maxi]

I know I've posted links from this blog before... but I do think that Dr Carol Beuchat does speak a lot of sense.

 

Here is her latest blog entry on inbreeding-in lines. Although it starts her discussion based on labradors. IMO her comments on co-efficient of inbreeding (COI) starting half way down the blog entry hold true for all dog breeders - including those for working BCs. ..

 

Perhaps I should also post this on the other thread on breeding for particular traits that is currently on-going in the "under the handler's tent' forum..

 

ETA IMO it is also worth reading Dr Beuchats blog entry on why DNA testing (although very useful) willl not necessarily make dogs healthier.. she also explains why knowing COIs are useful.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Andie writes, accurately, for show dogs, "line breeding is not uncommon in dogs. It's how breeds and then lines within those breeds are developed."

 

Line breeding is uncommon in Border Collies, perhaps because working dog breeders work with so many more variables than show breeders. Indeed Border Collies have one of the lowest COI's of any dog.

 

We are regionally "Flavor of the month". Go to New England and they'll tell you (expecting you to know the dog they're talking about ) their pups are out of Spot! and in Wyoming they're out of Roy! National Finals winners and the dogs owned by National Finals winners have some cachet as do imported dogs from this or that prominent UK dog or Trial winner. Then there are the celebs like Wisp and "the Butcher's Dog".

 

In short, we are too fickle for line breeding to take much hold. Common practice in the show dog world (and the Suffolk sheep world), I know no reputable Border Collie breeder doing it.

 

Donald McCaig

[mum24dog]

Are those Milliron pups expensive for what they are? They would be in the UK from the prices I've come across. They might be well bred but as pups they are unproven.

 

I'm not used to seeing such an emphasis on money on a web site.

 

Can a dog be ABCA registered without the sire and dam being eye tested?

 

I wonder what the health guarantee consists of.