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This is actually making me a little unhappy at the moment, trying to work out the "right" answer so I can start building things ready. As soon as I settle on a conclusion so I can start building on it, my brain goes, "But..!" and I start chewing it over again.

 

Up until recently, I'd resigned myself to getting a puppy this year. I was not 100% thrilled with this idea, after reading up on how hard some time periods are, decisions like neutering early, and the joys of various bratty moments.

I thought it was the only way for my partner to feel happy (he openly does not like dogs but doesn't mind young animals), and to allow the cats to process an interloper.

Earlier this month I had an adventure fostering an adult dog (see the latter half of this topic) that changed my reservations. On one hand that dog's care and training was beyond my capabilities. On the other, the cats had behaved excellently, were not scared after about a day, and the OH admitted had she not "smelled like dead animal" and whined / barked every time I was more than 6 feet away, he could have stuck it out*.

I'm now greatly tempted once I pass my driving test, to go to a dedicated breed rescue - http://www.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk (an hour away) - who know their animals in and out, and adopt a cat-savvy adult dog.

Which would you recommend for someone who is a little shy of getting hands-on (touching mouths, lifting paws, shoving butts out the way) of adult dogs? I don't want my shyness to endanger my pet. I do appreciate as I get to know the animal, I may become more confident.

This is my main worry about adopting an adult, that I don't have a lot of physical confidence yet. I'm not afraid of being scratched or nipped, I'm scared of upsetting my new friend. A puppy could be lifted out of the way of cats, situations and such, but I feel unsure (at the moment) how to quickly move an adult dog.

In general, is crate training with adult dogs any more or less difficult than puppies, assuming the dog has no specific fear of being contained? 12am-7am the dog will be crated, even if it means a week or two sleeping downstairs to settle them. My recent experiences with the blind dog (extreme reaction to being contained) dropped all of my confidence in this working.

I know whichever choice I make (and I think I'm leaning towards an adult again), there will be a lot of work from the start. In either scenario I'm scared of not bonding with the dog, most of all.

*This is high praise, I'll take it.

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One bonus to getting a rescue dog vs a puppy is that you can tell the rescue exactly what you want and there is an adult dog out there that will already be crate trained, cat savvy, and easy going enough to fit into your life quietly. A rescue dog will bond with you just as easily as a puppy, and with an adult dog they are more likely to be a 'Velcro' dog, because they don't want to lose their new human. Adult Rescues are also more of a 'what you see is what you get' kind of dog, so your OH can meet a dog before hand and decide if they want to live with that dog for the rest of their life. It sounds like your OH knew from the beginning he knew he didn't really care for your foster. It will also make you feel good about saving a dog's life, because most people only want a puppy.

 

I personally would not choose a puppy if I did not have previous dog experience. They are pretty much a shot in the dark for how they end up as an adult. They require constant supervision and attention, you are completely responsible for training them and being their replacement family (as you will likely be their first home away from their family), once they hit their teenage years they are terrors for a few months, and no matter how much you socialize/train some puppies they may never be the exact dog you wanted.

 

Puppies do have their bright side too. They are a blank slate, they are adorable, you will know their breeding background (i.e health issues or behavioral issues in their lines), you can meet the parents (but again they may turn out nothing like their parents), and most people love puppies, but then they grow up.

 

Kudos to you for considering an adult dog.

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Cass states the case for getting an adult perfectly. Our first dogs were all adult rescues and with each one we sort of knew who was joining us. All dogs blossom and change when they feel comfortable and welcome in their new homes but by choosing to adopt an adult you will have had at least a glimpse into their character.. With a puppy you don't know who you are getting as an adult and puppies can be annoying little beasts.

Rievaulx was my first puppy and I loved the experience of him growing up with us, he was a rescue and my next dog will be from a good breeder as I really want to experience the whole package and have the opportunity to raise my own dog, but like a lot of people on these boards I am a dog geek and love training and learning about dogs.

I would say talk to some rescues, meet some adult dogs and get a feel for the dogs.

 

I just had a random thought.. You mentioned you weren't comfortable either with learning to be around your new friend, perhaps go and volunteer at your local shelter, help them walk the dogs it will give you loads of experience with different dogs and help you get comfortable and help out the shelter as well.

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Cass, you have pretty much confirmed how I feel. I don't know if my lean was obvious from my original post, but my worries about a puppy (and how much of my life it would take over) are far outweighing my worries about a rescue adult.

 

At the moment:

 

Puppy concerns:

Growing pains (teenager)

Responsibility of early socialising / training / exposure

House training (poop)

Chewing

Cost

Health as an adult

Space for a pen

 

Dog concerns:

Seperation anxiety / noise

Personality not meshing ultimately

Striking a balance on what I can have (cat savvy, crate trained, potty trained) and what I may have to accept (X reactive, fears, dislike of the colour green)

 

And horrible as it sounds, if it didn't work out with an adult, I didn't feel a connection, or they truly couldn't settle, there's a rescue that with enough notice can support us or worst case, have them back. I wouldn't feel a failure to resort to this (though I doubt they'd let me have a dog again). A breeder (or in my case I was looking at farm ups) probably couldn't offer this.

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I don´t value puppies very much. Yeah, yeah, very cute and all, also rather obnoxious, not potty trained, and very needy when it comes to time and attention. I usually can´t wait until they are old enough for real training.

So if you have the change to get a young adult to your liking I would say go for it, the puppy stage is a relatively short face to your goal, owning an adult dog anyway.

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I think a lot of the appeal (to those who are experienced more than me) is watching progression and attempting to tailor outcome. I'm not convinced that without a lot of external help (classes and trainers) I would be capable.

I'm not bothered by "young", I'd take any age of adult that can still wag and is biddable. I can't offer an end of days sort of deal because I'm unprepared mentally and financially, but anything up to.

I will be attending classes or 1:1 training for basic manners and control, adult or pup. This is for me more than the dog. :)

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I don´t value puppies very much. Yeah, yeah, very cute and all, also rather obnoxious, not potty trained, and very needy when it comes to time and attention. I usually can´t wait until they are old enough for real training.

So if you have the change to get a young adult to your liking I would say go for it, the puppy stage is a relatively short face to your goal, owning an adult dog anyway.

 

My feelings exactly.

 

My latest dog was bought as a pup for the experience and it was always intended as a one off. Nothing has changed my opinion and if I get another dog in the future it will be another adolescent or slightly older.

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As it will be your first dog, I would strongly recommend going the rescue route. [Disclaimer: my signature reveals that I am not entirely unbiased]

 

A good rescue (and I believe the UK border collie rescue is excellent) will match the dog with the new owners. The dog will have been evaluated and will be a known quantity. They will help the dog find a family with a suitable lifestyle and personality. They will know (and be eager to tell you) the dog's traits and potential issues.

 

A good age to look for is between 1 and 2 years old. The dog will still young and mouldable, but will have passed through the worst of the "obnoxious adolescent" phase. (Failing to) Cope with an adolescent is one of the main reasons people dump border collies (at least, around here).

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I would recommend a young adult. As others have said, you can try to see if you can get certain qualities in an adult. It doesn't always work out 100%, but you have a better shot.

 

I've raised two puppies. The first time around I seriously didn't know what I was doing. By the second time I had adopted three more adult rescues (2 years old, 10 months old, and 2 years old), and I was so much better equipped because I had so much more experience. I actually didn't draw a lot off of my memories of raising my first puppy as I raised my second - I relied heavily on my experience with my older rescues.

 

You can always get a puppy the next time around, but with the reservations that you express at this time, I'd be inclined to think you would enjoy adopting a young adult.

 

And there really is nothing like giving a great home to a rescue. There is nothing like raising a puppy, either. Both come with their own particular joy.

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If I were you I would be open about your worries with the rescue, also ask about doing a foster to adopt. It is a more cautious approach to adopting and you have usually 60 days to decide if you want to keep the dog or try fostering another one. I know both of my local shelters offer this, which helps free up space for more dogs and figure out what their quirks are living with a family.

 

I know your last foster experience was pretty bad, but honestly it seemed like that dog needed help far beyond your experience.

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Is there an age you guys wouldn't recommend I exceed?

Do you think it's possible to train a new name for an adult dog, or is it never quite the same as their first?

 

I realise the older a dog, the firmer the expectations it has of a home life, and potentially the more it must adjust/cope. I'm patient, but I'd like to feel I can help from the get go.

 

Thank you for all your support. Honestly it's starting to feel really good rather than worrying. I'm a little prone to overthinking things and having a plan of action is very reassuring. :)

I don't mean to be doom and gloom but there likely will not be a "next time" or a puppy in the future. I'm not sad about it, but in ten years, tops, my OH will be retirement age and I will be 37 and having to work full time to support us both. Perhaps another reason to go for an adult.

 

It still haunts me slightly that a few years ago my elderly neighbour died, and he had a cantankerous old "nasty" border collie that wouldn't accept anyone coming in to feed it, walk it or speak to it. That dogs final days were numbered the moment it snarled at an RSPCA officer (female) who thought she could charm him round. In hindsight that dog was grieving for his pillar in this world, and needed to go to a rescue. I was too young to have any say in the outcome. Everyone salves their conscience by saying he was "too far gone".

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Is there an age you guys wouldn't recommend I exceed?

Do you think it's possible to train a new name for an adult dog, or is it never quite the same as their first?

 

I realise the older a dog, the firmer the expectations it has of a home life, and potentially the more it must adjust/cope. I'm patient, but I'd like to feel I can help from the get go.

 

Thank you for all your support. Honestly it's starting to feel really good rather than worrying. I'm a little prone to overthinking things and having a plan of action is very reassuring. :)

I don't mean to be doom and gloom but there likely will not be a "next time" or a puppy in the future. I'm not sad about it, but in ten years, tops, my OH will be retirement age and I will be 37 and having to work full time to support us both. Perhaps another reason to go for an adult.

 

It still haunts me slightly that a few years ago my elderly neighbour died, and he had a cantankerous old "nasty" border collie that wouldn't accept anyone coming in to feed it, walk it or speak to it. That dogs final days were numbered the moment it snarled at an RSPCA officer (female) who thought she could charm him round. In hindsight that dog was grieving for his pillar in this world, and needed to go to a rescue. I was too young to have any say in the outcome. Everyone salves their conscience by saying he was "too far gone".

Name - easy to retrain.

 

"Expectations of home life" - any home life is better than living in a shelter/pound. I find that my fosters have never 'expected' anything beyond food. [ Oh, wait, my first foster 'expected' to sleep under our bed. I did not know that. She was a stray. After 3 sleepless nights of constant howling from her (I had put her in a crate for the night), I finally let her out when she started to howl on night 4. She bolted upstairs to our bedroom, dove under the bed, and remained there, quietly, until morning. :P Border Collies are very adaptable. They will be fine with what you provide for them.

 

"nasty" border collie of elderly neighbor - I would bet that the dog was never properly socialized as a pup and lived a very isolated life like its owner. Once he died, the poor dog was probably terrified of new people and reacted to try and keep himself safe. Depending on the age of the dog and the degree of isolation, it would probably have been a very long road back to some semblance of normalcy.

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My two cents' worth:

 

1) I adopted a 3.5 yr old, who basically knew nothing (maybe sorta housetrained...). She ended up being an agility champ, my heart and soul dog, and the sweetest thing on the face of the earth!

 

2) I got a "bred" dog, at age 8 weeks. He is also an agility champ, luv him to death, and he is ALSO extremely sweet!
(Temperament is everything, if you ask me....)

 

3) I got another rescue at 5+ months, who is now 2+ yr old. She's a work in progress! Loves agility but is never going to win anything big, has "issues" with certain people and dogs, but is a love bug.

 

So - I'd say, it's a whole lot about "nurture" vs. "nature."
At least you're getting lots of input. And keep us posted!!

 

diane

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Most rescue dogs get new names usually for two reasons, their previous name was unknown or that it helps to start their new life as the previous name had bad associations. We renamed Brody as we hated his first name Rocky, he sort of chose it, I was sat at my desk working my way through a list of Scotish names and he responded to Brody so we test drove it for a few days and we all seemed to like it.

 

My last two foster dogs were un-chipped, un-collared strays on Mallorca which most likely translated into being dumped farm dogs ( I have been told that if the dogs show no interest in sheep they usually just get dumped, some take them to the shelter others just dump them, there are lots of pampered pets here but there is also some horrible animal husbandry as well, this applies to dogs/sheep/horses/goats etc) and although both had baggage they took to living in a house really well and neither had any issues with bathroom habits. They are now both happily living in homes in Germany.

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Hazel was called Rosie by her foster carer; who knows what she was called before that.

I had to change her name because one of my daughters was called Rosie and within 24 hours Hazel was responding to her new name in training class as if she'd never had any other.

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After getting Tio as a pup I swore I'd never do it again. Well, that was a year and a half ago and.... we have another 3 month old pup in the house. Never say never is what they say.

 

We actually wanted an older dog as a rescue but as we found out over the last year or so getting a rescue dog from the Japanese BCRN proved to be really difficult. For starters, there aren't that many dogs and when we did inquire about a dog it just seemed like they were more interested in keeping the dogs than finding a home for them. We fully disclosed that Tio was still recovering from Myelitis and my wife thinks they were just concerned that maybe we had our hands too full with his rehab. But even recently we contacted them several times again and they never responded to email and phone messages.

 

This pup "Juno" came along as a kind of rescue.... unwanted because of off color and was more or less given to us so we decided to take him in. Those sad, lonely little blue eyes were my kryponite.

 

As destiny and irony would have it...after many months of searching for a source of a true working bred BC I met a lady by total happenstance who as I found out is a member of the only working BC group in Japan. This group is really off the radar but totally in line with the philosophy of this site. Further...the organizer and head trainer of the group has a farm less than an hour away from me...

 

That was two weeks after we picked up Juno....

 

That's life eh...

 

The next dog WILL be from working parents so probably yet another pup to raise.

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I think the only advantage to a pup is that you know the full history and can mould them as you like. Now that may sound like a big advantage, but as mentioned the work that goes into a puppy can not be overstated. I got lucky with mine who is now five months old. She was a breeze to house train, never pooped inside even once, and apart from a weak recall and some active rebelling she is great with training for obedience and tricks. She is very mouthy, which would not be as much of an issue in most adult dogs and could be broken easier than it can be with a pup who wants to go gung-ho into everything with teeth as the first point of contact. The reason I picked a pup is because in spite of the work now, I am more assured of getting the exact dog I want so I signed up for the hard yards.

 

If your requirements are pretty general, don't make your life hard with a baby. They are physically incapable of holding their bladder for more than a few hours. They must be fed three or so times a day to start with. They need to be taught everything through an excitable mind which makes it that much harder for what you say to stick. It's just difficult.

 

An adult dog is physically much more capable of house training (if they aren't already), they can be left for longer periods of time and apart from those affected by sep-anx they are normally pretty ok with that if given something to chew on or play with. Their brains are more focused and they're often very willing to do what you say for praise and affection which is much easier in my opinion than trying to fight through all the other things a puppy is thinking, seeing, smelling and hearing.

 

I personally wouldn't get a pup again without a real reason. My next one will probably be fully grown or at least a few months old and easier to handle. Most are around six months to a year if you go through rescues which I plan to from now on. Even if they didn't get the training and socialization as a pup and you have to do it at six months, it's still easier with an adolescent dog in my opinion.

 

Best of luck!

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Thanks for all of your replies, it's been lovely reading them! I'm glad to hear about the name being easily changed - I like to give a name that suits the animal. Our first cat for example was named "Kizzi" which was a ridiculous name for our scared little patchwork feline. She's now named after a small dancer.

 

What my expectations are, rather than the dog's. ;)

I'd like a friend who can hang around with me during the day and be interested in what I do. I love the company my cats provide, but they're asleep most of the daylight hours.I'd like to use it as an excuse both to go out at lunch and exercise more, and to start a regular activity like a dog sport. I'd like to try herding for the joy of it, but with many rescue dogs being "failed" farm dogs in my region, we'll see - I'll find something we both like, not just something for me. I'd like a dog that enjoys a good lean on a person/leg, but not necessarily needing or wanting lots of fussing.

I hope to learn how to reduce doggy smell, even if it means a few baths early on or visiting a groomer shortly after adoption. I'll also be doing some basic training classes for both our benefit.

My long term goal would be to do the morning vitals(breakfasts, toilets and wash), see the OH out the door and my new friend and I sneak back to bed for an hour to read and answer work email.

Farther on than that I'd like to go camping in the lake district and walk with my dog in some of the places I grew up in, and hopefully do us both proud meeting my family.

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I think a lot of the appeal (to those who are experienced more than me) is watching progression and attempting to tailor outcome. I'm not convinced that without a lot of external help (classes and trainers) I would be capable.

I'm not bothered by "young", I'd take any age of adult that can still wag and is biddable. I can't offer an end of days sort of deal because I'm unprepared mentally and financially, but anything up to.

I will be attending classes or 1:1 training for basic manners and control, adult or pup. This is for me more than the dog. :)

Actually, you get to watch progression and tailor the outcome with an adult dog as well. As one who has fostered many dogs, I can tell you that without exception if the foster dog was with me for any length of time at all the dog's behavior and outlook changed, and I was in charge of engineering those changes. It is just as rewarding to work with, train, and encourage an adult as a puppy...........in some ways more so. As others have done, I would strongly recommend that you get an adult from a rescue. A good rescue will work with you and your needs and match you with the right dog.

 

As for age, I truly do not think that there is any "cut-off" point beyond which I would not recommend adopting a dog. It is, of course, true that an older dog will probably have fewer years to be with you, but the fact is that none of us ever know how much longer we will be here. Anything can happen to anyone at any time. My experience has taught me that the quality of the time spent with another, whether human or animal, truly is more important than the quantity. I know that's a cliche', but it is ever so true.

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I hope you don't mind me getting a little off topic. You have mentioned "doggie smell" in a couple of your posts and I thought I would give you my experience. I have only only owned dogs since I was married. So far we have had two German Shepherds, two Miniature Schnauzers, and now our Border Collie who is almost 11 months old.

 

I am really sensitive to smells to the point that at one time I took my GSD to the vet for a routine visit and was embarrassed that I did not have the time to bathe him first because he was really stinky. While I was with the vet I asked him about my dog's horrible smell and asked if possibly it was due to a health issue. My vet told me my dog didn't smell bad at all.

 

Just before we brought home our puppy I read here of some people that almost never gave their BC a bath and I thought, "That may work for some owners, but I have a sensitive nose." My girl is a smooth coat (I don't know if that makes a difference) but I almost never bathe her. She just doesn't smell bad. A few times last summer she would get dirty and I would hose her off and she smelled fine. I could never do this with my GSD, he would stink!

 

So possibly your OH won't mind the smell of a Border Collie.

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