New to BC's

[DanaWilson]

My husband got me a 10 month old border collie last month for my birthday. His name is Ruckus and I ADORE him! Supposedly the breeder culled him from his siblings being trained for sheep herding when an ewe trampled him and he was "traumatized" I don't know how true it is since we don't keep sheep but this dog is anything but traumatized lol He's such a good boy, he learns things so fast and behaves pretty well for what I've heard about bc's. I just have a few general questions about his interactions with other animals, feeding, training etc. Sorry if my questions are silly, I've never had a dog this intelligent/active before.

We have a 6 year old cat that is still adjusting to him. She's gone from hiding from him to just acting generally annoyed by him so that's good progress to me, but he's really bad about invading her personal space and just looming over her whenever she's nearby. I know he's probably decided she's his flock to tend, but I'm not sure how to get him to back off her a bit. I think she'll probably decide she likes him if he does.

He's currently eating Blue Wilderness puppy formula but with his birthday coming up, I'd like to know when I should start looking at transitioning him to an adult food and what everyone's opinion is on blue and if there's a specific flavor that's a favorite. (I saw they have a rabbit formula that sounded interesting)

He's getting fixed on Monday and I have him signed up for a weekly obedience class next month after he's healed. He goes to work every day with me, but I work at an office so he has to occupy himself most of the time. I figure that's better than being crated and alone all day. He has lots of toys and likes to throw them around and "talk" to them. Any suggestions for other fun things to keep him busy while I work? My mom is my boss but she still frowns upon playing with the puppy all day lol I live on an acre and we go out and run run run when I get home (I've lost 5 lbs since I got him!) but this time of year it's hard because it's dark so early.

I'm considering getting him a companion, another bc or bc/aussie. Any tips on the best way to go about it?

[dsmbc]

First, congratulations! Second, crates are a dog owners best friend. there is nothing wrong with crates and it can help an active mind "shut off" and relax. I use to take my BC pup to work everyday, but he stayed in a crate, other than several potty breaks through out the day. it helped to teach him to relax. BCs sometimes need down time. it also makes life much nicer for your co-workers. Another co-worker brought in her dog, but refused to crate and let it do it's own thing. it became disruptive for everyone else. As far as the cat, it might take some work. At Denise Fenzie Dog sport academy, there is a prey drive class online that starts Feb first, The instructor will help you train your dog to Leave your cat alone, easiest way for a beginner BC owner to learn what to do. my personal opinion is to wait to get another herding dog until you figure this one out and get some training on him. it will make your life easier. he is very handsome!

[Bordercentrics]

Congratulations on adding Ruckus to the family! I would transition from puppy food right now. Many breeder never feed puppy food ever. I promotes fast bone growth, which can cause problems later. Get him on a good adult food.

 

I wouldn't get a second dog until Ruckus is fully trained. Trying to train two dogs at the same time can be maddening for you!

 

Best wishes for a long and happy life together.

 

Kathy Robbins

[GentleLake]

First, congratulations on your pup and welcome to the Boards.

 

Your pup may have been traumatized in regard to working on sheep (or he may not have) without having affected his overall disposition.

 

Border collies don't "tend" sheep. They herd them. Totally different things. It's hard to know from your description if he's just interested in the cat or if it's prey drive. Since herding behavior is just modified prey/stalking behavior, it could well be the latter. Either way, to stop him, tell him "no" and either call him away or if he won't come away when you call him away go to him and take him away. It's up to you to teach him what's appropriate and not appropriate, and obsessing over the cat should not be appropriate.

 

I feed raw, so can't advise you on food other than to say that you should consider rotating protein sources rather than feeding the same one all the time.

 

Most people will tell you that 10 months is too young to neuter him. You should wait until his growth plates are closed, probably until at least 18 months old. There are discussions about this and the reasons for it in the archives.

 

Yes, crates are invaluable in training a pup.

 

And, yes, for several reasons it's probably not a good idea to add another puppy now. Enjoy your puppy's puppyhood. It's way too short. Give him time to bond with you and for the 2 of you to develop a really good relationship before adding another dog. Find other ways to let him play with other dogs in the meantime.

[moosikins]

Congrats! BCs are awesome companions.

I especially love his one long white sock and the name looks pretty fitting for those mischievous eyes!

 

Check out dog puzzles - you put food into them and they have to figure out how to get it out. It's great for their mental needs. Our 9 mo old girl especially likes the Wobbler made by Kong. They have to smack it around with their paws or nose to get the treats to fall out. With this toy you may need to spend a little time helping him figure it out at first if he's determined to win against it by sheer force like Callie tried. Ours has deep scratches and teeth marks from where she threw fits and got aggressive towards it, but works perfectly at keeping her entertained for hours now that she understands how it works.

[Gloria Atwater]

...........

We have a 6 year old cat that is still adjusting to him. She's gone from hiding from him to just acting generally annoyed by him so that's good progress to me, but he's really bad about invading her personal space and just looming over her whenever she's nearby. I know he's probably decided she's his flock to tend, but I'm not sure how to get him to back off her a bit. I think she'll probably decide she likes him if he does.

He's currently eating Blue Wilderness puppy formula but with his birthday coming up, I'd like to know when I should start looking at transitioning him to an adult food and what everyone's opinion is on blue and if there's a specific flavor that's a favorite. (I saw they have a rabbit formula that sounded interesting)

He's getting fixed on Monday and I have him signed up for a weekly obedience class next month after he's healed. He goes to work every day with me, but I work at an office so he has to occupy himself most of the time. I figure that's better than being crated and alone all day. He has lots of toys and likes to throw them around and "talk" to them. Any suggestions for other fun things to keep him busy while I work? My mom is my boss but she still frowns upon playing with the puppy all day lol I live on an acre and we go out and run run run when I get home (I've lost 5 lbs since I got him!) but this time of year it's hard because it's dark so early.

I'm considering getting him a companion, another bc or bc/aussie. Any tips on the best way to go about it?

 

 

Aw, what a cutie! Welcome aboard.

 

To answer your questions ... Per the cat business, make that stop. Just stop. It's not "herding," it's annoying and your poor kitty doesn't need to put up with that. We have 3 dogs and a puppy and also 4 cats, and haunting and following cats is not permitted. It's an obnoxious, rude behavior and personally, I think it warrants a sharp correction and redirection. Nix on the kitties.

 

Per dog food, gosh, he can be on adult food already! Blue is a good food, from all I've heard, so might as well stay with that if you like it. But he's ready to go on grownup chow.

 

Per the crate, I understand not wanting to crate him for 8 hours a day, but do make sure he knows what a crate is and will stay in one quietly. Meanwhile, though, do you fence him off in a certain part of the house while you're at work? I'm skittish of young dogs having the full run of the house for hours alone, as it can turn into destructiveness if he gets bored.

 

Per getting him neutered, the wisdom nowadays says to wait until they are 18 months to 2 years, so they get their full growth before the hormones disappear. Is there any particular need to have him neutered at this time?

 

Per getting him a friend or companion - I'd say say no. Leaving TWO young dogs alone for hours together doesn't "give them something to do," it just gives them double the impulse to gang up in mischief together. Unless you have a kennel run or some place to leave them in while at work, I wouldn't advise that. Plus if they are hours a day alone together, they can get so bonded to each other that they don't really see the point in listening to you.

 

But most of all, if you do have two young ones at once, I believe they do best with ample one-on-one time with you, so basically, you'd be doubling your work and training load.

 

Best of luck!

 

~ Gloria

 

 

 

 

 

[DanaWilson]

Most people will tell you that 10 months is too young to neuter him. You should wait until his growth plates are closed, probably until at least 18 months old. There are discussions about this and the reasons for it in the archives.

Could you link me to the archive you're talking about? I'm still figuring out how to navigate the site and I can't find it. He's wanting to hump small children when they try to play with him and while I know that fixing him may not stop that behavior, I'm not comfortable with him interacting with other dogs while he's intact.

[GentleLake]

Could you link me to the archive you're talking about?

 

At the top of the page (under the banner) is a search box. Choose "forums" and use keywords like you're doing an internet search.

 

HTH.

[DanaWilson]

I'm waiting to hear back from the vet about rescheduling his appointment. It was set up for Monday, but while I was looking at their website for the contact information, I saw that they call/text to confirm and if you don't answer they give it to someone else. I never received anything from them so I might not have an appointment anyway! The trainer advised us to fix him before the class. I guess we have to either wait to get him into the classes or find a different one to take him to. Also, my brother in law has a female bc that he has plans to breed and I'd really like to take him to their house to play on their 15 acres with her but he's not allowed to until there's no chance of an accidental litter.

As far as food goes, his bag of puppy food is less than half full. I wasn't planning to buy another huge bag of puppy formula anyway, we'll just get adult food and start the transition.

 

Per the crate, I understand not wanting to crate him for 8 hours a day, but do make sure he knows what a crate is and will stay in one quietly. Meanwhile, though, do you fence him off in a certain part of the house while you're at work? I'm skittish of young dogs having the full run of the house for hours alone, as it can turn into destructiveness if he gets bored.

He actually goes to the office with me. I have a spot for him with toys and a soft place to lay down if he wants. Our office is really small, I work with my mom, my husband and my grandmother only. He either stays in his little spot behind my chair (like the picture below) or he lays out by the front door where he can see what's going on outside and he can see everyone else's office in case someone needs to take a break and pet him or anything lol There's a big field at the end of the building and we go out 3 or 4 times during the day so he can potty and wander a little and practice good leash manners. If I have to leave him alone for any reason, he goes in the crate. Always.

 

 

[GentleLake]

my brother in law has a female bc that he has plans to breed and I'd really like to take him to their house to play on their 15 acres with her but he's not allowed to until there's no chance of an accidental litter.

 

Well, there's no chance of an accidental litter if the bitch isn't in heat, which is most of the time.

[DanaWilson]

Well, there's no chance of an accidental litter if the bitch isn't in heat, which is most of the time.

I understand that but my brother in law is really anal. Their dog is super fancy Montana stock and Ruckus is unpapered (although the breeder claims he's directly from the Welsh Roy lines. Anyone know what that entails?) She's only 8 or 9 months old too. *I* think it would be fine, but she's their dog and I don't want to have an issue with them if (heaven forbid!) he were to mount her while they play lol

[kingfisher7151]

There's no reason to make your pup pay for your brother's paranoia. There's quite strong evidence against early neutering, I think a quick google search will give you plenty of resources. Early neutering increases the odds of cancer, bone problems, hip dysplasia, and much more. The pro-early-neuter "arguments" basically are based on the notions that intact dogs ALWAYS have litters, and that neutering early prevents let lifting, mounting, aggression, and other nuisance behaviors. Unfortunately, neither of those things are true! The most difficult part of owning an intact dog is explaining to other people why you're doing it!

[DanaWilson]

There's no reason to make your pup pay for your brother's paranoia. There's quite strong evidence against early neutering, I think a quick google search will give you plenty of resources. Early neutering increases the odds of cancer, bone problems, hip dysplasia, and much more. The pro-early-neuter "arguments" basically are based on the notions that intact dogs ALWAYS have litters, and that neutering early prevents let lifting, mounting, aggression, and other nuisance behaviors. Unfortunately, neither of those things are true! The most difficult part of owning an intact dog is explaining to other people why you're doing it!

Good point. He should understand since they only very recently neutered their 8 year old doberman because they didn't want him making puppies with her (adorable as they would be!) I guess if they decide Ruckus can't play with Pistol I'll have to find him another playmate. We just live out in the country so there are no nearby neighbors or dog parks. That was the main reason I was wanting to get him a friend. I know it would be twice the work though. In the future when we ARE ready though, would a puppy be ok? Ruckus doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body but I found when we were looking in the first place that rescuing an older pup comes with a LOT of baggage and drama.

[Maralynn]

Rescued older pups can be really great, too. My female came to me as a 10 m/o rescue and she has delightful dog and people manners And you can get very nice 4-5 y/o dogs in rescue as well. They key IMO, is to get them from an actual rescue where the dog has spent time in a foster home and has been evaluated. But yes, another dog in the future should be fine. I like to wait until the current youngster is 2-4 y/o and nicely trained before adding another dog. My two are 6 y/o and 10m/o (I lost a 9 y/o this spring so the 6 y/o was never an only dog either)

[DanaWilson]

Just talked to the vet and cancelled his neutering. Good thing I work with family because I looked over at him and said "Your manhood is safe another day!" lol

 

Rescued older pups can be really great, too. My female came to me as a 10 m/o rescue and she has delightful dog and people manners And you can get very nice 4-5 y/o dogs in rescue as well.

 

I was really referring to the drama involved from the people I had to deal with. I tried to rescue 3 dogs before I found Ruckus. The first one was actually "stolen" from me by a rescue because they decided to go get him from before I could and the girl I was talking to about it didn't realize what they were going to do next. Then they turned around and told me I could give them $300 and apply for him when he needed nothing as far as vaccinations or neutering, he was even microchipped already. I was really mad. Then I tried to go the shelter route. After finding 2 dogs I liked then being told when I got there to actually take them home, both times someone else had "just been there and taken them" I just couldn't go through it again.

[mum24dog]

Re age of neutering. It isn't by any means as widely accepted that you should wait until 18months - 2 years as is being claimed here. I have discussed the matter with my own vet and an orthopaedic consultant and neither is overly concerned for the average dog on the basis of available evidence.

 

Discuss it with the professionals in your life. If you don't trust them to be honest with you find someone who will. Then make up your own mind based on your own dog and your own circumstances.

[d112358]

I was really referring to the drama involved from the people I had to deal with. I tried to rescue 3 dogs before I found Ruckus. The first one was actually "stolen" from me by a rescue because they decided to go get him from before I could and the girl I was talking to about it didn't realize what they were going to do next. Then they turned around and told me I could give them $300 and apply for him when he needed nothing as far as vaccinations or neutering, he was even microchipped already. I was really mad. Then I tried to go the shelter route. After finding 2 dogs I liked then being told when I got there to actually take them home, both times someone else had "just been there and taken them" I just couldn't go through it again.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you. I've had good luck going through a rescue and going through a shelter, but my shelter experience was more a 'go and see what's there, decide on a dog' experience rather than having one in mind to begin with.

[DanaWilson]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I've had good luck going through a rescue and going through a shelter, but my shelter experience was more a 'go and see what's there, decide on a dog' experience rather than having one in mind to begin with.

I didn't want to rush into anything. Even though it was going to be MY dog, I still discussed each one with my husband first. I'm glad we got the pup we did though. He's a delight. I swear if I focus on one thing at a time I can teach him something every day!

[d112358]

I didn't want to rush into anything. Even though it was going to be MY dog, I still discussed each one with my husband first. I'm glad we got the pup we did though. He's a delight. I swear if I focus on one thing at a time I can teach him something every day!

 

Makes perfect sense. The shelter I went through will let you put a hold on a dog for a few days (with very few exceptions), but you have to go in and meet with them first.

[GentleLake]

I found when we were looking in the first place that rescuing an older pup comes with a LOT of baggage and drama.

 

Not necessarily. It really depends on the individual pup.

 

(ETA: Sorry. I hadn't read your explanation about your shelter experiences before I wrote this.)

 

And, yes, adopting a pup later would be fine, as would adopting an older dog. It's more about letting any new dog bond with you and learn the ropes before adding another that it is about the age of the second dog when you do add one.

[Kylos86]

Hi Ruckus is a very hansome boy well done for choosing a Border Collie "puppy food" is a total con we put Django on adult from 4months most breeders I know feed normal dry food straight away.

 

As for the neutering I have the same problem with my girlfriend pestering me but I will stand by my decision to wait until at least 2 years of age and if there is no problems wih his behaviour I will leave him intact. We had our cat neutered at 6 months and recently he has developed problems related to early neutering (as advised by the vet!!!) this is also a money making scheme to con overcautious owners. If you are a responsible owner your dog wont get chance to mount any bitches at least not long enough. It makes very little behavioural differences.

[Gloria Atwater]

...... I guess we have to either wait to get him into the classes or find a different one to take him to. Also, my brother in law has a female bc that he has plans to breed and I'd really like to take him to their house to play on their 15 acres with her but he's not allowed to until there's no chance of an accidental litter.

 

 

 

He actually goes to the office with me. I have a spot for him with toys and a soft place to lay down if he wants. Our office is really small, I work with my mom, my husband and my grandmother only. He either stays in his little spot behind my chair (like the picture below) or he lays out by the front door where he can see what's going on outside and he can see everyone else's office in case someone needs to take a break and pet him or anything lol There's a big field at the end of the building and we go out 3 or 4 times during the day so he can potty and wander a little and practice good leash manners. If I have to leave him alone for any reason, he goes in the crate. Always.

 

 

Sounds like your work setup for him is perfect!

 

As for your brother and his fancy BC bitch ... Um, if he doesn't realize that your dog can't possibly breed his bitch unless she is in heat, (which is only about 3 weeks twice a year) maybe he doesn't need to be breeding dogs. My two local friends whom I train with both have intact bitches and intact males, and when my intact male comes around, we just keep everything separate if there's a girl in heat! No problem.

 

Though I do know some obedience classes require that males be neutered. Hopefully you can find one without that restriction.

 

Per "Welsh Roy" lines, my best guess would be Aled Owen's Roy? He's a many-times champion and one of the top sires in the UK nowadays. If your boy is of those lines, that's pretty nice.

 

Good luck with the little dude!

 

Gloria

 

 

 

 

 

[Maxi]

You've been given good advice here.

 

If 'Welsh Roy' does mean Aled Owen's Roy as Gloria suggests, then you can see the pedigrees here (he has had 2 highly successful trial dogs called Roy. One who won the ISDS International Supreme in 1999 and the other who won it in 2007 . The 2nd Roy also won the World trial in 2008)...http://www.aled-owen-sheepdogs.co.uk/dogs.asp scroll down about half way down the page).

[SkunkOnTheFly]

my BC grabs the cat by the scruff and drugs him around the house. for us..i really think its mostly play because the cat keeps coming back for more and then they run around each other and the dog loves SITTING on the cat..lol

[DanaWilson]

You've been given good advice here.

 

If 'Welsh Roy' does mean Aled Owen's Roy as Gloria suggests, then you can see the pedigrees here (he has had 2 highly successful trial dogs called Roy. One who won the ISDS International Supreme in 1999 and the other who won it in 2007 . The 2nd Roy also won the World trial in 2008)...http://www.aled-owen-sheepdogs.co.uk/dogs.asp scroll down about half way down the page).

What he told me was that both parents came directly from Wales and that their breeding traces back to the Roy bloodlines. He's not papered though so I don't know how true it is. I don't really care though since I won't be breeding him.

We've started working on his behavior around the cat in the last couple days and I'm already seeing progress. He does really well when we're outside with "leave it!" so I'm extending that command to the cat. He still really feels the need to be able to see her but he doesn't insert himself into her personal space near as often. She's kind of a brat though and I'm pretty sure she knows he's gonna get in trouble if she yells at him. I'm catching her crying like he's annoying her when he's not and that makes him want to bug her so it's partly the naughty kitty too!